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Old 01-11-2016, 07:12 PM   #41
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...

Sit on the aft deck or flying bridge of your boat at a dock and most dock walkers will leave you alone. Or they might say something generic like "nice day, isn't it" or whatever as they walk past. ...
Last Friday, during the 20-minute preparation for taking the boat out after two weeks of inactivity, (1) a boating neighbor dropped by asking advice for replacing battery acid, (2) the local diver gave his business card, and (3) the blackwater pump-out man came to service the boat.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:39 PM   #42
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... the local diver gave his business card...
Was the diver Chris Steinberg of Boat Bottom Cleaning Service? He's the guy I hire. He does a great job as evidenced by my recent haul out.

Apologies for the thread creep...
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:42 PM   #43
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Oscar,
Nice explanation of the fifth wheel. I have always defined it as the horizontal pivot point connecting the trailer to the tow rig. Google defines it as "a coupling between a trailer and a vehicle used for towing." With some some trailers now having a third axle, that wheel is not always the fifth any more. Here is our current home shortly after we picked it up in Missouri:


This tow vehicle can also be used for the boat. It was one of my reasons for changing from a motorhome. A bit on the larger side, but I found these examples on thehulltruth.com of the Camano 31 being towed by a tow vehicle a similar size to mine.



It is certainly large enough to be comfortable on for a while. For a smaller trailerable example, the C-Dory 22, Halycon, was used extensively as a liveabord. That usage was documented in their blog and eventual book. The Ranger Tug R27, Kismet, is another example that was blogged about and later compiled into a book. There is also mention of the boaterhome, where the trailerable boat is used in RV campgrounds. I haven't done that yet.

I think there are many similarities between RVs and boats. Thinking that marinas=campground and anchoring=boondocking are a couple of examples. There are many corresponding varieties for both of those. For campgrounds, some are oriented for families with children. Others lack those features. Some are tight and crowded. Others are more spacious. Both boats and RVs have systems ranging from more simple to more complex. With the large engine and accompanying systems, the motorhome we had was more complex than the fifth wheel trailer we now have. As with boats, there are pros and cons to each type of RV. There's a saying on the RV forums that "you will like your third one." I wonder if selecting a cruising boat is similar.

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Old 01-11-2016, 07:43 PM   #44
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Was the diver Chris Steinberg of Boat Bottom Cleaning Service? ...
yes
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:49 PM   #45
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Tim, looks like you're putting a lot of stress on your vehicle. Wonder how much heavy duty shortens the life of the towing vehicle.

Comparing hotel/motel costs to a live-aboard trailer, an expensive trailer doesn't compute.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:02 PM   #46
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Tim, looks like you're putting a lot of stress on your vehicle. Wonder how much heavy duty shortens the life of the towing vehicle.
It's was not parked entirely straight, but turned slightly. The overall numbers are fine, though I also plan to check specific tires. The truck is rated for 17K and the trailer maxes just under 16K. The combination tows and handles great.

Quote:
Comparing hotel/motel costs to a live-aboard trailer, an expensive trailer doesn't compute.
The cost analysis depends on usage patterns. I would not want to pay for full-time living in a hotel. Here's one data point towards that. We had a smaller house in the suburbs of Chicago. The taxes alone for a year on that house will pay for a full year of decent RV parks and, depending on where, maybe even two. It was only $300/month in Rockport, TX, but about $650/month in Anacortes, WA. Missouri was about $350/month. As you can see, it varys widely. All we have to do to change the monthly budget is drive to a different one.

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Old 01-11-2016, 08:04 PM   #47
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Last Friday, during the 20-minute preparation for taking the boat out after two weeks of inactivity, (1) a boating neighbor dropped by asking advice for replacing battery acid, (2) the local diver gave his business card, and (3) the blackwater pump-out man came to service the boat.

Good point, Mark. But how many of these people bent your ear for two hours talking about the latest trick they've taught their tiny hood ornament dog, the fact their newest grandchild just pooped for the first time on his/her own, and how the mysterious stomach ache they've had for the last month has them totally baffled?
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:36 PM   #48
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That is the rig we are looking at too. Great choice IMHO and would permit us to spend several weeks each way as we go from AZ to BC.
Andy R and Janet H are waiting for you at airforums.com.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:04 PM   #49
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Andy R and Janet H are waiting for you at airforums.com.

Believe that was their first forum. Airstream 25 was my parents choice for a two year trip around North America, it should serve both of you and Tom well.
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:29 PM   #50
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Marin, once again (you must be accustomed to it by now) you are wrong. Even in our 36 foot diesel pusher motorhome, out west, we NEVER had to stay in a park, unless we wanted to. We didnt have to stay on the "beaten path" unless we wanted to. The very best places were the ones we found after we took a wrong turn. We camped behind a bar/cafe one night just north of Billings Montana in a rainstorm. The food was great, the people we met were even better. A once in a lifetime experience. It was one of numerous great experiences like that.It happens on the road, on the water, or where ever.The tourists sees what he came to see. The traveler see whats there to see.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:39 PM   #51
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Some people don't know about the millions of acres of BLM land that are available for camping. There are plenty of places to camp without going to a commercial RV park. As I said, "boondocking is like anchoring".
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:11 AM   #52
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Marin, once again (you must be accustomed to it by now) you are wrong.
The fact that I'm never wrong aside, I'm not talking about what a relatively few RVers do which is seek out out of the way, off the beaten path places like the fishing friends I mentioned earlier. That could be interesting if we were attracted to the RV thing at all, which at this point we aren't as we think we would find it extremely boring compared to the kind of traveling we are used to doing here and abroad.

I'm talking about what the vast majority of RVers do which is travel between RV parks and campgrounds. Hideous environment is the best description I can come up with based on our fortunately few experiences with it. In our observation it is every bit as bad as the stereotype portrays it.

Based on our admittedly limited experience with it it simply is not the kind of crowd we want to be around. We are not social boaters so have little to no interest in interacting with other boaters apart from the small handful of people from here and Europe who we take out on our boat and the folks we like to boat with from our harbor. But at least on a boat there is a barrier--- the water--- that tends to ensure privacy if you want it even if there are other boats nearby. And for the most part, boaters seem to be quite respectful of people's privacy.

Not so in the RV corrals. There is no impediment to people you have zero interest in interacting with coming over and intruding on your privacy. And unfortunately too many of the people who are attracted to the RV thing are the very kind who seem to live to inject themselves into as many people's lives as they can.

Maybe it's an RV thing--- like birders keeping score of how many snowy owls they've seen. Maybe RVers keep score of how many people they've roped into listening to their tales.

Even way back on the Yukon trip I mentioned--- and this was before the Alaska Highway and other roads up there were paved so I shudder to think what it must be like up there now with the access so much easier--- we'd be in a nice provincial campground by the lake we were going to fish and then one or more RV-types would show up, make a huge ruckus getting their rigs leveled, and then crank up the generators and music. And invariably, once they'd gotten all settled in these old coots would stroll down to our campsite and yack our ears off telling us all about their trip and lives and RV features and families and God only knows what.

It seems from the times we've stopped by to visit RVing friends on the road in recent years the situation hasn't changed at all.

That's the great thing about float flying and boating--- the machines make it possible to experience amazing places and see amazing things without the babble of humans in the background. We'd rather have an unpredictable brown bear on the other side of the stream than a typical RVer hell-bent on telling us his life story.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:52 AM   #53
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Down where we mostly live around the Mediterranean we are inundated with motor homes as people from the colder north Europe come down for the sun.That's no problem and they are entitled to their leisure time, the difficulty is we don't have the space as in America, Canada or Australia and the medieval town centres can't accept campers so they end up hogging supermarket car parks.
The campsites here were more geared up for tents until the motor home boom and they are struggling to cope with their ever increasing size.
I feel sorry for them as they cruise gently along the roads taking in the scenery because everyone else is in a rush at work and they end up clogging the roads and get being given signs and gestures that are not in any highway code book I've seen.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:28 AM   #54
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"The fact that I'm never wrong aside, I'm not talking about what a relatively few RVers do which is seek out out of the way, off the beaten path places like the fishing friends "

I suggest you google "4 corners" for a different view.

Just as perhaps 1 in 200 marine motorists choose to PAY for the style vessel to go in blue water,(and put up with the required compromises) it is similar in the RV world.

A big tire , good ground clearance tiny BOONDOCKER would seldom be seen in a US RV park.
You will find them on the Pan Am highway trekking thru local roads .
Many are versions of 4WD Mercedes 24 ft or so with 500+ mile fuel ranges.About 1/4 million $$$ each.

Here are a few of varing ability and pricing.

http://www.doityourselfrv.com/toughest-off-road-rvs/

The closest in the USA is the escapees club , where the usual truck chassis restricts them to highways and unimproved roads .

These folks make a game of independant travel and many will have a number stuck on their club logo.
The number represents the number of times they have gone across the USA with ZERO nights in a campground.

The US forest areas as well as state , county and city parks are all used.

Campgrounds do have social rules , although there are no posted signs.

One NEVER crosses another occupied camp site !!!!

At times folks on the ROAD will strike up a conversation IF the campers are outside and there is some commonality.

As a bus camper , 1956 Flxible VL 100 , other Bus Nuts may say high , but only after seeing a YES card on display in the windshield, NO means no visitors.

A campground is not a Bill Clinton hunting ground trailer park as too many rigs are $200,000 + a few go over 1 million.

Successful people understand, respect and enjoy their privacy as much as any marine motorist.

Many campers have 2 styles of operation .

One is in transit , snowbirds , whatever, and the camp ground is a safe spot to plug in O'nite and not need a noisemaker.Far less stinky than a free truck stop

Vacation travel is different with many folks towing a "toad " to be able to see the local sights.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:15 AM   #55
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A fifth wheel is called a turntable down under.
Thanks, amazed at the breath of the Queen's English. Any idea as to the origin of the usage of turntable for the connecting hitch receiver?
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:21 AM   #56
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"We'd rather have an unpredictable brown bear on the other side of the stream than a typical RVer hell-bent on telling us his life story. "


Based on the length of most of your posts, the RVer would probably feel the same way!
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:54 AM   #57
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"We'd rather have an unpredictable brown bear on the other side of the stream than a typical RVer hell-bent on telling us his life story. "


Based on the length of most of your posts, the RVer would probably feel the same way!
While we don't camp, we love hearing the life stories of others as long as they're sober when sharing them. We find people interesting and enjoy learning about them and at the same time learning more about our fellow man and the world we live in. We don't want to lose touch and knowledge of those who have lives different from ours.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:11 AM   #58
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There is an RV for everyone.

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Old 01-12-2016, 10:12 AM   #59
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Thanks for the humor Dimor. Rving the Oregon and Washington coasts in the fall and winter, most places are almost empty. Oregon has some great campgrounds on the coast, not expensive, some even with cable service.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:12 AM   #60
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Never say never, but neither my wife nor I can even imagine a worse way to travel. Jammed into RV parks or crowded RV campgrounds...

We love road trips, short and long, and take them constantly, work and other occupations (like boating) permitting but we will rent a cabin or if necessary stay in motels.


Some of the rigs are cool, no question, the aforementioned Airstream products in particular. So it's not the means of travel that puts us off, it's the company one is forced to endure while traveling.

We have one set of friends who last year bought a trailer and truck specifically set up for what they call "off grid" RVing. They feel exactly the way we do about the RV scene, so they in essence go "off-roading" with their truck and trailer which is set up to be totally self-sufficient for a fairly long period of time.

So that kind of thing my wife and I could see doing down the road a ways. But the standard RV scene? No way in hell.
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Marin:

Certainly there are lots (and maybe most) of campers who like commercial campgrounds where you back into your 40 x 20' slot and hang out at the pool or playground and crawl in your palatial RV after dark to watch TV, but that is not our style.

For the last two years since we moved back to Connecticut we have camped a couple of dozen nights and for at least half of them we didn't have anyone close enough to even see their campfire. These were state and US forest service campgrounds. Yes, National Parks are crowded, but even with those I can enjoy my bourbon late at night around the campfire. And they always have fantastic scenery to enjoy during the day away from the campground.

And I have towed my smaller camper years ago behind my 4 wheel drive SUV to totally remote "dispersed" campsites where there probably wasn't another human for a mile in every direction. Don't do that anymore though.

So it isn't all as bad as you say, just bad for the maddening crowd.

But some of the same applies to boating. You do understand the term "dock queen".

David
Marin

Your post is exactly how we feel. We cannot imagine paying to park a rig 10 feet from another rig, and then then dealing with the hassles as some grumpy old fart lets his little dog roam because it's "cute" while giving us the evil eye because my German Shepherd is "scary".

David

The picture you paint of RV'ing is the only way we could do it. That sounds like fun, but the problem is that nothing we've seen except some folks "boondocking" occasionally remotely resembles your description.

So the problem is that we know fun, uncrowded RV'ing must exist, it's just too iffy to make the huge investment required to find it.
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