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Old 06-26-2016, 06:11 PM   #21
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City: Houma, Louisiana
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When I got LUNASEA home after a few trips both Capilanos started leaking. Bought 2 new pumps and brought boat down to New Orleans to a well know ship yard for installation. WELL after 4 weeks and 4 GRAND all was said to be well, except my check book, but lesson learned get written quote. Owner said it took 2 men 40 hours to remove and replace both pumps and one was leaking when I got back home. After much talking they drove to repair leaks.
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:02 PM   #22
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Helm pump

I too had a leading cablino helm pump. Ordered seal kit and when taking it apart found rocker arm/ bracket and tried to find one. Seastar would not be making them for 4 months! Remove lower and upper heads and switched as we drive from the upper held all the time. Pulling both pumps after draining the fluid and installing took 3 hours and installed a new seal kit in the new upper helm and will install new rocker when I get time. New helms are available and parts can be hard to come by ,by anyone with a mechanical knowledge can do it. Messy yes . I believe you got taken for your work ,need to be there went they are. I can afford the boat ,but not the mechanic,there are few that are good and others are not.
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Old 06-26-2016, 10:10 PM   #23
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If it's the front seal it's not even a special part just a x (also known as quad) o-ring.
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Old 06-26-2016, 10:30 PM   #24
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I can see why your frustrated.

But how would you like to remove a thousand pounds or so of concrete ballast from your lazerette laced w lots of steel punchings? ..... w two sizes of jack hammers. Can't see or breath too well down there w the jack hammers running but we got it done w/o damaging the hull. That's the worst job I've had to do. Actually I only did about 30% of the removal .. the yard did the rest.

Had a leaky stern tube so sea water got into cracks in the concrete and reached the steel punchings resulting in corrosion that expanded and pushed the bulkhead about 1'" fwd. That was the tell-tale. Replaced w all lead.
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Old 06-28-2016, 08:02 PM   #25
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My Wagner, model AW upper helm pump

When I took my Wagner helm pump into get serviced at Olympic drives in Richmond, he said he had just finished a similar pump a couple days before. He worked at the company that had manufactured them some 30 years ago.

He also said when I reinstalled the pump, not to turn the helm. If I wasn't going to drain and bleed the whole system, I should carefully fill the hydraulic tubing leading to the upper helm pump as full as possible, then continue to fill the upper helm pump and let the system naturally bubble itself free of air.

Have any of you heard of reinstalling an upper helm pump this way? Every thing I have read has two people turning the two helms in opposite directions to clear the lines?
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:46 PM   #26
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The Capilano steering pump is the simplest hydraulic pump ever made. Even the variable piston plate ones are simple. The only place they can leak is the steering shaft o ring or the plate adjustment o ring, either of which can be easily replaced by anyone. It aint rocket surgery. I cant even start to recount the number of times that I've heard stories of "thousands of dollars to repair" these units. Well, caveat emptor.
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:47 PM   #27
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I installed my hose so that it goes down close to vertically from the rudder cylinder and then gradually rises fwd to the helm pump. This way any air in the system dos'nt get trapped. To bleed I turn the helm all the way and stop. Then wait some time until any air in the hose has time to migrate to the pump. Usually overnight. I replace fluid lost at the pump fill hole. Then I turn the helm fairly quickly all the way the other direction and wait for the air to migrate. When no fluid is needed at the pump there is no air in the system.

When you turn the helm quickly one way any air in the cylinder or short downward hose gets pumped into the part of the hose that leads up constantly and gradually to the pump. That's why this system works.
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:57 PM   #28
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How about the standard capilano air bleed unit. Just open the screw and crank the wheel in one direction until the air is gone. Or, second best, install a bypass valve at the solid to flex couplings befor the ram. Then just open the valve and turn the wheel. The air in the cylinder is a no brainer to bleed.
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:51 PM   #29
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My Capilano upper helm pump was leaking from the steering wheel shaft. Knowing nothing I took it to a well known yard for repair. They told me it needed to be removed and sent out for repair. Also said it would be expensive. As I was in the middle of a cruise I decided to wait until after the cruise.

In the interim I searched this forum and someone had posted that the fix was easy. Remove the wheel, remove the cover plate behind the wheel (2 Philips head screws), remove the o-ring that sits behind the cover plate (used a dental pick), replace with a #15 o-ring (Home Depot), reassemble and done.

Job took 15 minutes, cost $1.75 and hasn't leaked a drop since. So easy that Marin's dog could do it.
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Old 06-29-2016, 12:03 AM   #30
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I don't have a Capiliano helm, it's a Wagner AW. The technician says many owners have done it. But Olympic drives will replace all the gaskets and seals, O rings and will clean it up. For a couple of hundred dollars, it's money well spent
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:30 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamdouglass View Post
When I took my Wagner helm pump into get serviced at Olympic drives in Richmond, he said he had just finished a similar pump a couple days before. He worked at the company that had manufactured them some 30 years ago.

He also said when I reinstalled the pump, not to turn the helm. If I wasn't going to drain and bleed the whole system, I should carefully fill the hydraulic tubing leading to the upper helm pump as full as possible, then continue to fill the upper helm pump and let the system naturally bubble itself free of air.

Have any of you heard of reinstalling an upper helm pump this way? Every thing I have read has two people turning the two helms in opposite directions to clear the lines?
I have Wagner steering about 45 years old. Attached is the filling procedure. I installed a small hyd. tank above the upper pump to make filling easier.
Most people that have problems with hydraulic rebuilds either are too dirty or not inspecting the area where the seal rubs. Sometimes you can use a cup seal in place of an o-ring. It seals better and allows for some out of round.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf wa-brochure-filling-700-series-cylinders.pdf (295.2 KB, 21 views)
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:52 AM   #32
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I've read that brochure, that's why I was surprised he suggested I not turn the helm when filling the upper helm. When I collect my helm pump, hopefully today, I will show him the brochure and ask for clarification. Olympic Drives in Richmond is the distributor and service center for Wagner drives, so I would assume they know what they are doing.
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Old 06-30-2016, 12:09 PM   #33
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Wagner AW upper helm pump installed

When I picked up my upper helm pump I got clarification on filling and bleeding the system.
He said if I wanted to really do a proper job I would drain the lower helm pump and clean any dirt and debris that may have settled in that pump, and then fill the lower pump and then the upper pump. Considering where the back of the lower helm pump was, in the electrical closet, I chose just to fill the upper pump.

The install was relatively easy, and with my daughter turning the lower helm station and myself on the upper helm station turning the opposite way we had it filled and working in no time.

The type of fluid I use however was what the previous owner used, ESSO mineral lube, 10w. This is significantly thinner then the AW32 suggested by Wagner. Because of the reduced viscosity, air probably bubbled to the surface much quicker then if AW32 was used.
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Old 07-01-2016, 04:37 PM   #34
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Wanger parts manual is now available in the library

If any one is interested the Wagner parts manual is available in the Library.
It has diagrams for model 700, 701, N series and parts numbers. And where you can get these parts. The only thing it doesn't have is a diagram of my Wagner AW pump. I had to get this from Olympic drives. It is a one page mechanical drawing of the pump. When I get around to it I will post that drawing along with the picture of the job they did on my pump.
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