Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-26-2019, 07:45 AM   #1
Member
 
City: Squam Lake
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Rossiter Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
More random newb questions....

Thanks in advance for all the helpful insights!

For the sake of discussion lets assume we are talking about something approximately 50ft in length with either a full displacement or modified displacement hull. Open flybridge is a must (I say this because it might impact the davit discussion).

1. It appears that twin engines draw a lot less than a single. Why? Maneuvering is obviously easier with twins. Plus the "get home" factor. But two engines cost more and take up more space in the engine room. What are the other plusses and minuses of twin engines? We live on the east coast and are likely to spend a lot of time in the Bahamas so having a shallower draft is a big plus.

2. Do wood cap rails have any functional purpose or is it strictly a "looking good" sort of thing? It seems like a lot of extra work to keep it looking nice in the tropics....

3. It would appear that its not ideal to have a stern mounted tender. But I see lots and lots of pics of stern mounted tenders on TF. I get it puts the hardware in the middle of the swimdeck but I'd think having a dinghy that close to the water would make life easier. Thoughts on the plusses/minuses and best way to do it?

I've got hundreds of more questions but its amazing how many answers I've been able to find on this forum!

Thanks
__________________
Advertisement

GraniteStater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 08:26 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Hughesville, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Branwen
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 358
A boat that size could have an upper boat deck for the dinghy behind a flybridge that is enclosed or open. I'm not sure what you're thinking there.

1. The twin versus single discussion has been done to death. It might be the most discussed boat-related topic on the internet (ignoring guns and anchors for a moment). I suggest you search for those existing and spend a few days reading the circular discussions.

2. Is wood more functional that some other material? I can't think how. In general, wood looks good, but it can be a pain to keep the look.

3. People do a lot of things that aren't ideal for other reasons, convenience and expense to name a few front runners.

Keep the questions coming, but remember that Google and the search engine on this site are your friends.

Greg
__________________

GregBrannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 08:38 AM   #3
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,267
We keep our dinghy mounted on a davit system on the swim platform, and reinforced directly to the transom. It's relatively easy to pull the ~250-lb dinghy (with motor, etc.) up onto the carrier with a hand winch. It's relatively easy to launch. It's not as easy to avoid backwash when coming down off plane. Crossed stern lines are a pain the gazoo sometimes... so we usualy keep a set of sorta-kinda-crossed stern lines attached directly to the davit system... not optimal, confusing for dock-hands (we have work-arounds for that)... but it gets the job done.

Our system is cantilevered, so we can walk across the swim platform between transom and dink... much easier for ingress/egress at floating docks. OTOH, that also means the boat is about 3' longer, which sometimes impacts turning radius in fairways... and of course it means I get a chance to play bumper boats from time to time if I get the angle of the dangle wrong while starting to dock in a 4-way.

Our boat neighbors have some wood. They finally primed/painted the toe rail and bow pulpit since it was too much work too often. Then they replaced the cockpit coamings with some kind of synthetic stuff. More recently, they're trying a different epoxy primer/varnish system on the remaining trim around cockpit windows and on the door into their saloon. Lots o' work... and they've said if this new system doesn't work better, they'll paint that too.

You can spend hours reading all the twin vs single threads. I've had both, can't think of anything new to add ref pros/cons. I'd go for either, depending on how the rest of the boat might meet our criteria. And in fact, often the shopping process locates a boat that might meet criteria, then choose from among whatever engine systems might have been available. For us, the number of engines isn't a shopping criterion.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 08:45 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,147
You would choose a twin engine boat if either: your needs dictate it; or if you want to be wrong
makobuilders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 08:51 AM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: ACIW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,889
If cruising to far away places, backup engine(s) are probably a nice idea.


But go on many sites like great looper association and see how many twins have stopped due to prop strikes but no orfewer singles with engine issues.


Dingys are either handy or less used
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 10:41 AM   #6
Member
 
City: Squam Lake
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Rossiter Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregBrannon View Post
The twin versus single discussion has been done to death. It might be the most discussed boat-related topic on the internet (ignoring guns and anchors for a moment).
Wow - can't believe in all my reading I had not come across anything other than a passing reference to the single vs twin debate. You're right though.... its amazing how much crap is out there as soon as I googled it. Guess I've got lots of fun reading for this rainy sunday afternoon.
GraniteStater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 10:45 AM   #7
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,840
We have twins, but if we had found a boat with a single that met our needs we would have taken it. We didn’t want all the horse power that our boat has but having had it now for almost 4 years we do like having the power when we need it. Usually in buying a boat you take what you get when you find a boat you like and fufills your needs.

As to teak, we have tons of it, inside and out. The inside teak if fine but we are tired of varnishing teak so this year we started painting some of it. So far we love it. Next winter more varnish will go away and we will paint it also.

Nothing wrong with a dinghy on davits on the stern, it is much easier to launch and recover than on the hardtop. If it is easier to launch and recover you will use it more often. But there are downsides, it can be in the way and it is more easily hit by waves. Choices.

Good luck with your search.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 11:05 AM   #8
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,229
Question 1 has been dealt with.

Question 2, wood is pretty, wood is a lot of work. Is it worth it is a personal decision.

Question 3, dingy davits on the back are very convenient for launching and recovering the dingy. The negatives are interference with swim platform, difficulty in securing the dingy for storm travel and the blocking of the name on the back of the boat. Storing the dingy on the upper deck has its issues. The negatives are difficult and time consuming to launch and recover, uses up some of your best cocktail 🍸 space, adds weight aloft.

often the right answer is personal or mission sensitive.
tiltrider1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 11:13 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
SailorGreg's Avatar
 
City: Newport
Country: US
Vessel Name: Privateer
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 52
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Wow - can't believe in all my reading I had not come across anything other than a passing reference to the single vs twin debate. You're right though.... its amazing how much crap is out there as soon as I googled it. Guess I've got lots of fun reading for this rainy sunday afternoon.


The twin vs single decision is much less important than semi vs full displacement. Note that we have a twin engine, full displacement boat and are somewhat biased in that favor.
The decision goes to how you are going to use the boat. To grossly over- simplify the issue, for a given 50’ “trawler”, full displacement boats are more seaworthy and semi- displacement boats go faster if you want them to. Hull shape not a problem for crossing over to the Bahamas from Florida to Bimini in calm weather, for example. And with the semi displacement speed advantage you can rev up and do everything in day hops.
Alternatively, last year we came back from the Bahamas straight to Newport. An easier and safer trip in a full displacement hull.
There are a lot more semi displacement than full displacement boats out there. At displacement speeds they burn about the same fuel.
As to number of engines, we chose twins because the running gear geometry allow for less draft, and a foot saved in the Bahamas is of value to us. Since we do long passages we would have at least a get home engine, so two engines regardless. And get home engines will get you up the river to a marina, maybe not to a port from many miles offshore. For the single engine crowd, loosing an engine in the ICW is no big deal, but loosing an engine 200 miles offshore is somewhat more a problem. We have back-ups and spares for everything on the boat, to include the drive engine. It goes as much to your philosophy of cruising as anything else.
I have quite a few sea miles and have had only two or three engine stoppages, and was able to repair them all and keep going. That would argue for the simplicity of a single. But think of what you would do with an engine stoppage in 8’ seas and you loose your forward motion and stabilizers as you try and fix the problem. Surely doable, but I would rather not have to worry about such an event.
There is no right or wrong answer to either the hull or engine question, just make sure your decisions follow your cruising plans, your lifestyle and your tolerance for things going wrong.
SailorGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 11:40 AM   #10
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,626
The ? Re draft it simple if you picture the hull shape towards stern. The deadrise angle varies with hull designs but a single on centerline puts the prop at the lowest point and single props typically larger than twins. Twins are placed part way up the slope of the hull so will draft less.
Above ignores tunnels which some designs utilize to reduce the draft on both singles & twins but do affect handling (reduced prop walk)
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 01:57 PM   #11
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,482
I'll skip the first two and relate my experience in dinghy mounts. I have had a dinghy mounted on St Croix type lifting davits on the transom and Weaver davits on the swim platform that make it easy to flip it up to the transom. Never had a boat deck mounted dinghy.


The Weaver davits or similar was by far more functional. If you need to use the swim platform for what- swimming, then you just flip the dinghy down. While installing your O/B (and there is a Weaver Lever system that lets the O/B stay mounted and swivel when you flip) and while boarding, the Weaver system keeps the dinghy stable.


The stern lift davits are ok, but they intrude just as much into the swim platform and do nothing for boarding stability.


The boat deck mounting takes a heavy crane, either a Nick Jackson pipe type or a full fabricated crane. And it takes a lot longer to lift and get in place. Really only worthwhile if you have a big, heavy dinghy and then the crane gets bigger and more expensive.


David
djmarchand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 03:56 PM   #12
Imp
Veteran Member
 
City: Sneads Ferry NC
Country: U.S.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
It would appear that its not ideal to have a stern mounted tender. But I see lots and lots of pics of stern mounted tenders on TF. I get it puts the hardware in the middle of the swimdeck but I'd think having a dinghy that close to the water would make life easier. Thoughts on the plusses/minuses and best way to do it?
Easier, but more vulnerable to theft. That said, while wintering in Cartagena one year, my late skipper & I watched a huge 3-decker motor yacht come into the anchorage one afternoon. That evening the large tender was hauled high up on its davits. By dawn the tender was gone.

On our cruising sailboat the customary sleeping spot for the Avon was on deck, but depending on the anchorage sometimes we just hauled it c. 3' out of the water on the starboard side for semi-safekeeping. That's where it was one evening in a secluded cove in the Sea of Cortez as I was cooking dinner. All of a sudden the anchored boat heeled sharply & there was a giant thud. I scrambled up to the cockpit where I spied an adult seal smack dab in the middle of the dinghy with an apparent grin on his face. Not sure how the seal jumped that high out of the water, but the skipper & I lowered the Avon back to water level, where the seal spent the night in his new waterbed. The white canvas cover got pretty dirty, but nothing else was amiss from our slumber party guest's visit. To continue our journey to La Paz we towed the Avon behind, & our visitor enjoyed the journey for a couple of miles before departing. Hauling up our dinghy out high above the water was supposed to be a deterrent to thievery, but it certainly didn't deter our charming visitor.

In response to your davit vs. stern query, Fly Boy & I are currently trawler shopping, & we are giving preference to boats with davits on the bridge.
Imp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 06:21 PM   #13
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,453
Last first. I prefer either a crane and dinghy stored on a top deck or flybridge or a dinghy mounted on a hydraulic swim platform. However, there are a number of issues with the platform mounting. The one I consider most significant is the height of the platform when underway, especially when taking off and/or planing. It must be high enough to keep the dinghy well out of the water or I don't like it. Very few are.

Wood is attractive. No other reason.

Clearly single is going to be lower in the water, assuming everything else is equal, but everything else is seldom equal. Few boats that are identical except singles or twins.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012