Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-21-2010, 07:44 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Hi Woodsong
Ours is a 1991 model hull number 191. On Yacht World, there are two Monk 36's. One a 2001 and the other is a 2007. Both make comment to having an oversized rudder. Not sure if the newer boats were fitted with the larger rudders or not. The auto pilot will not keep the boat tracking all that straight and hand steering is constant.
Thanks for your input.
__________________
Advertisement

Capuchin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:02 PM   #22
Guru
 
Woodsong's Avatar
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,630
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Hm. My 1983 Monk tracks pretty straight though the wheel is relatively responsive.
__________________

Woodsong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 04:31 AM   #23
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,518
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Actually what I'd REALLY like is power steering like in a car. And about 2 to 2.25 turns lock to lock..


No problem its just money , and you can have the hyd windlass and no time limits bow thruster as well. 6K of smooth AC .

Best bet is to toss in enough spare change for a hyd starter for the main engine and a hand pump.

You will never suffer from a dead batt again.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 06:27 AM   #24
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,361
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

It would be interesting to see if the Monk 36 oversized rudder includes oversize block, shaft, control arms*and other associated gear.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 08:51 AM   #25
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Monk 36 Rudder

The Eagle track straight and the auto pilot has no problem even in 3 to 4 ft seas.* But its *40+ tons and a rounded stern so it does not get push around much.* I talk to the shop and the are going to make me a 1 to 2 inch link between the actuator and the rudder to increase the angle.*

The biggest thing I would like to compensate for is the reverse prop walk.* I would take that over tighter turns any day.*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 12:47:26 PM
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 05:29 PM   #26
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
Monk 36 Rudder

My Monk is an '84.* I'd consider the rudders pretty normal sized.

Oh yeah, I know the bottom is pretty foul looking.* We're on the hill now to get a much needed bottom job!


-- Edited by Egregious on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 06:30:19 PM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rudders.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	105.0 KB
ID:	3890  
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 05:52 PM   #27
Guru
 
Woodsong's Avatar
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,630
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Woody- you have twin screws! That is CHEATING!!
Woodsong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 06:07 PM   #28
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,167
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Is there anyone who can explain whether twins require the same or less rudder area as a single?
I would expect them to require less, as the full amount of rudder required should be related to the speed and hull configuration of the boat, rather than the number of pieces it is divided into. So maybe not a linear relationship, but if a single requires for example, 6 sq ft of rudder to achieve performance at hull speed, twins may also require 2 @ 3 sq ft, and if you were to put in a third engine, 3 @ 2 sq ft.
so Woody's rudders should be a lot smaller than Tony's.
sorry Woody.
koliver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 07:28 PM   #29
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:

Woody- you have twin screws! That is CHEATING!!
They didn't make many with twins, but I found one.* I feel both sides of the argument, literally.* I love the maneuverability, and the spare engine saved our butts on our first long trip.* But doing everything X2 is a pain, and more expensive.* Same old arguments, and I still like having twins.

BTW, once they sanded it the bottom looks great, only a few small (size of a fingernail) blisters, and some evidence of galvanic corrosion.* Don't know yet whether it is coming from inside the boat or from a nearby slip.* So I have that to look at...

As far as the size of the rudders, maybe they need to be half the size since I have two...* But she drives straight and similar or better than other similar boats that I've driven, mostly Grand Banks.* Since mine is one of only a few that were built with twins, perhaps they just strapped on the same rudder X2*as they used with the singles?* Two rudders is more drag and all that running gear is why I don't get quite the fuel economy as a single, but I can get up and crank out nearly 10 knots when I have to, although inefficiently.

*
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 11:52 PM   #30
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Woody,
Since you have twins I hope you have two 70hp engines instead of two 140hp engines.
When GB made twins they used the same engine as the single so they made two boats, both w the same hull but one w twice as much power and one w half as much power as the other. I hope Monk wasn't that stupid. But I'm afraid you're going to tell me it is so.
I compared you're stern pics and see that your about 1.5" lower in the water. One could assume it is from the weight of the extra engine but that weight would be far enough fwd so it should'nt show to that degree at the stern. Do you suppose it could be that your'e keel is full of water? Do you know if it is or isn't?
About the rudders. I suspect Monk probably decided you had so much extra power that a tiny loss in efficiency was worth loosing for the somewhat large increase in maneuverability and control. Also It's obvious they probably made the twin w the same engines as the single to minimize inventory complications and expense so they would do likewise w the rudders. Just because a boat was designed and built by "professionals" dosn't mean it was done correctly. If Edwin Monk designed the boat for 150hp no builder has any business putting 300 in it and the reverse is also true. Also in this Monk example the single engine boat has a certain weight capacity and the twin engine has a weight capacity that is a full ton less. And the single engined boat has a noticeably higher CG. I'm not saying they did or didn't know what they were doing or that I know what I'm talking about but they probably did it because GB was doing it and GB was selling more boats. I do take back most of the above if Woody's boat has two 75hp engines.
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 04:50 AM   #31
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:And the single engined boat has a noticeably higher CG.
How do you do that?

I have crawled all over lots of boats looking for a CG but haven't ever been able to see one.


-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 23rd of December 2010 05:53:07 AM
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 11:44 AM   #32
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

CG's have red stripes on their boats and give free inspections. The red stripes are so you can see them easily** ...opposite of navy grey.
Actually I'm assuming the engines are lower than boat CG and any weight added to, around, on or in the engine/s would lower the CG. On an OB boat this would not be the case.
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 11:59 AM   #33
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,260
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

How many 200-pound people on the flying bridge*are needed to offset the presumed lower CofG of a two-engined boat over a single?
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 12:46 PM   #34
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,361
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

The 200 lbers*won't be on the FB very long when big waves come along.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 01:12 PM   #35
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

When GB made twins they used the same engine as the single so they made two boats, both w the same hull but one w twice as much power and one w half as much power as the other. I hope Monk wasn't that stupid.
If you were talking about a displacement boat you'd be right.* But GBs (and other similar boats) are semi-planing boats and so can put the extra power to good use if the owner wants to go faster and is willing to cough up the*money for*the extra fuel.* So "overpowering" a semi-planing boat makes sense if buyers want to go faster, which in the case of GBs, particularly starting in the late '80s, early 90s, was the case.* The typical buyer of a GB42 in the late 1990s, for example, wanted to be able to get to his destination at 15 knots, then cruise the area leisurely at 8 knots, and then make the long run home at 15 knots.* By putting what you would consider way-overpowered engines in the GB42--- a pair of 450 hp Cats (IIRC) in the case of later GB42s--- the owner was able to do this.

So it wasn't stupid design, it was smart marketing.

*
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 01:49 PM   #36
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:Actually I'm assuming the engines are lower than boat CG
They might be smaller engines mounted higher in the hull than a centerline single. Maybe the VCG is higher than the single.

*
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 01:50 PM   #37
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,260
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
RickB wrote:


nomadwilly wrote:Actually I'm assuming the engines are lower than boat CG
They might be smaller engines mounted higher in the hull than a centerline single. Maybe the VCG is higher than the single.


But then probably not.

*
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 01:52 PM   #38
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
markpierce wrote:But then probably not.
In any event, it's impossible to determine the VCG by looking at a picture of a boat.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 11:29 PM   #39
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Monk 36 Rudder

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Woody,
Since you have twins I hope you have two 70hp engines instead of two 140hp engines.
When GB made twins they used the same engine as the single so they made two boats, both w the same hull but one w twice as much power and one w half as much power as the other. I hope Monk wasn't that stupid. But I'm afraid you're going to tell me it is so.
I compared you're stern pics and see that your about 1.5" lower in the water. One could assume it is from the weight of the extra engine but that weight would be far enough fwd so it should'nt show to that degree at the stern. Do you suppose it could be that your'e keel is full of water? Do you know if it is or isn't?
About the rudders. I suspect Monk probably decided you had so much extra power that a tiny loss in efficiency was worth loosing for the somewhat large increase in maneuverability and control. Also It's obvious they probably made the twin w the same engines as the single to minimize inventory complications and expense so they would do likewise w the rudders. Just because a boat was designed and built by "professionals" dosn't mean it was done correctly. If Edwin Monk designed the boat for 150hp no builder has any business putting 300 in it and the reverse is also true. Also in this Monk example the single engine boat has a certain weight capacity and the twin engine has a weight capacity that is a full ton less. And the single engined boat has a noticeably higher CG. I'm not saying they did or didn't know what they were doing or that I know what I'm talking about but they probably did it because GB was doing it and GB was selling more boats. I do take back most of the above if Woody's boat has two 75hp engines.
I see your point.* Maybe* I made a mistake.* But the trips I've taken so far and the knowledge I've gained about boats cannot be taken back.

To be clear, yes they just doubled the 135 Perkins.* Yes the outboard side of the Port side engine is a Bitch to get at.*

My next boat will be a single, perhaps with a bow thruster, but I may not need it.
__________________

Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grand Banks vs. Monk Island Trader Grand Banks 27 12-04-2016 07:56 AM
Monk 36 owners -- H20 tanks? Egregious General Discussion 12 03-08-2011 11:01 AM
Monk 36 Refit Update Woodsong General Discussion 24 12-10-2010 09:58 PM
First weekend on our Monk 36 Woodsong General Discussion 11 08-23-2010 03:14 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012