MMSI rant, part two

[Oldsarge]

To get the FCC to issue MMsi you have to have at least a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone
licence. (RR licence) and the information is correct that an BoatUS issued one is supposed to be for domestic use only. You also need the FCC licence to get a call sign for your boat. (good for 10 years I believe)
The problem with using a domestic MMSI in international waters is that some countries may consider it an infraction on their own rules and regulations, if you should use a VHF radio or AIS and you are unlicensed by the FCC. You also need this RR licence to operate a SSB radio in international waters. (legally) If you operate your VHF radio, your SSB radio or AIS in a countries territorial waters, and they want to get sticky about it, you could be fined or worse. It's best to have the documentation for the RR licence. No test involved, but there is a fee and it is good for life. Fortunately Radars don't need a licence domestic or in international waters. If I'm wrong on any of this please correct me.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

(legally) If you operate your VHF radio, your SSB radio or AIS in a countries territorial waters, and they want to get sticky about it, you could be fined or worse.

90% of us on this forum only visit Canada and/or Mexico or Caribbean.(Not sure with the Caribbean) These countries could care less. I visit B.C. each summer and I have never been asked to show my FCC licence for my VHFs or AIS. Nor have I ever heard of anyone else I know get asked.

So in "reality" this subject moot.

 

[Oldsarge]

Thanks for your comment, and I'm sure you are right. Fortunately you are boating in an area where such things are not actively pursued. And you were probably never involved in any kind of boating incident with the authorities.
I'm interested more in the international aspects of cruising, and have heard of horror stories where cruisers have even had their boats impounded until they could produce all the necessary documents and licences etc. Some in the Caribbean area. Active Captain, Noonsite, and other boating forums etc., mention such things.
But even though 90% may never travel internationally, there is still that 10% where it might be important. You never know.
Anyway the rant was about specific companies being difficult to deal with, when an MMSI needed to be changed, and my point was it's the way the FCC interprets what is legal and what isn't. I think AIS is great and it's basic purpose is collision avoidance as someone mentioned. But the fact remains that it requires an MMSI to be able to use it. It does transmit a signal, and that involves FCC regulations.

 

[Offshore 54]

Call them!

oh noooo.
you mean there radio vhf and ais are different?
good thing i am retired. i will try to tackle that tomorrow. but probably no help from Raymarine.

I went through the same issue, Ray equipment, 2 x VHF and AIS. Yup, their website is pretty bad, but call them, they will give you an RA, ship it and you should have it back in a week or so. The folks on the phone, tech support and customer service are really good.

 

[RMY]

Foreign MMSI

Be aware that you need a FCC MMSI if you plan to travel outside of the US.

BoatUS MMSI for domestic use only.

I think we discussed this a couple of months ago - I think Boat US should discontinue issuing MMSI numbers. There is no reason for people not to have an FCC issued one.

Bought a boat with Seychelles registered MMSI. Am I stuck having send radio back to Raymarine or is there some way to register in my name? What part of the Raymarine 260 needs to be sent in? The handheld or the main box?

 

[Comodave]

Bought a boat with Seychelles registered MMSI. Am I stuck having send radio back to Raymarine or is there some way to register in my name? What part of the Raymarine 260 needs to be sent in? The handheld or the main box?

It depends on the radio. The ones I have had were able to be programmed 2 times before having to be sent to the manufacturer to be reprogrammed. Check with Raymarine or look in the manual and see if it tells you.

 

[Porgy]

Bought a boat with Seychelles registered MMSI. Am I stuck having send radio back to Raymarine or is there some way to register in my name? What part of the Raymarine 260 needs to be sent in? The handheld or the main box?

Are you in Newport? Check with Cay Electronics. It looks like they are authorized Raymarine repair and service. If so, they might come to your boat to do it.

(I had two different Icoms purchased at the same time. One could be programmed a second time, the other I had to send out.)

 

[Tink]

It is just not Raymarine, it is illegal in the US for the end user to change the MMSI number. Did you try and have the previous owner release the MMSI number to you. It worked for me. I was in the same situation with the VHF and the AIS.

Can you point me to the law about this? I've change several on my boats and I'd hate to end up in MMSI prison. Seriously though, I've read through the USCG info about changing the MMSI and I don't see that rule.
Thanks

 

[bowball]

This should be really helpful for learning about the mmsi and the steps to get one.

https://www.milltechmarine.com/About-MMSI_ep_69.html

 

[SoWhat]

Can you point me to the law about this? I've change several on my boats and I'd hate to end up in MMSI prison. Seriously though, I've read through the USCG info about changing the MMSI and I don't see that rule.

Broadcasting false information via mmsi would be unlawful. I have never run across a federal regulation stating it is unlawful to program your own radio. FCC regulation 47 CFR 80.231 states:

"The entry of static data into a Class B AIS device shall be performed by the vendor of the device or by an appropriately qualified person in the business of installing marine communications equipment on board vessels." and

"Knowingly programming a Class B AIS device with inaccurate static data, or causing a Class B AIS device to be programmed with inaccurate static data, is prohibited."

USCG regs simply state it must be properly installed.

 

[Comodave]

That is because the CG doesn’t regulate broadcasting, the FCC does.

 

[psneeld]

AIS and VHF radios are 2 different things.

 

[DW1979OA]

I had Fred Fritz Electronics do much of my Ray Marine install. I still keep in touch with Fred. Great guy. I believe that he has the ability to reset the MMSI for you. Give him a call at 707-974-1548. He is in Petaluma, so not too far from you.

 

[4fun1]

Can you point me to the law about this? I've change several on my boats and I'd hate to end up in MMSI prison. Seriously though, I've read through the USCG info about changing the MMSI and I don't see that rule.

Thanks

I have changed the boat name in my AIS unit myself but could not change the MMSI number. It needed a special program that is only available to installers. Same with the VHF.

As to the law, see So What's post below where he quotes it. It says the information can only be changed by someone in the business.

 

[SoWhat]

AIS and VHF radios are 2 different things.

Yes, but both need the mmsi number, the subject of this thread. I suspect most modern vhf radios have DSC capabilities.

 

[SoWhat]

As to the law, see So What's post below where he quotes it. It says the information can only be changed by someone in the business.

FCC states Information "shall" be changed by authorized persons, not "must" so anyone can change it. Entering inaccurate information is prohibited.

As a practical matter AISPro2 software may or may not allow you to change static data on your particular unit. You probably won't get past the password while attempting to change the mmsi number. Built in money maker for AIS transceiver manufacturers and installers.

 

[psneeld]

Yes, but both need the mmsi number, the subject of this thread. I suspect most modern vhf radios have DSC capabilities.

I was refering to the quoted law piece that was discussing AIS programming but didnt have anything about radios.

Not sure if you still can but the radios I have bought/used at work...you could reprogram them once (either for a mistake or repurchase after the initial programming...like Comodave posted).

DSC reception by a radio is not the same as you are not transmitting and I haven't seen any VHF radios that are not black box types that are AIS transceive...you need the separate AIS transponder.

for info

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/mandatory

Until recently, law schools taught attorneys that "shall" means "must." That's why many attorneys and executives think "shall" means "must." It's not their fault. The Federal Plain Writing Act and the Federal Plain Language Guidelines only appeared in 2010. And the fact is, even though "must" has come to be the only clear, valid way to express "mandatory," most parts of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFRs) that govern federal departments still use the word "shall" for that purpose.