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Old 12-03-2014, 05:00 PM   #121
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Daisy chaining the bonding system isn't a preferred method...but for small amounts of items bonded I'm sure it would be fine. The larger the boat ...choosing something less prone to failure would be the tree method with a main running down the length of the hull.

Good luck with the solar...that may be my next big project...
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:45 PM   #122
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Daisy chaining the bonding system isn't a preferred method...but for small amounts of items bonded I'm sure it would be fine. The larger the boat ...choosing something less prone to failure would be the tree method with a main running down the length of the hull.
It wouldn't save that much wire to daisy chain... I'll rethink that part. Basically not using it (the Dyna-plate) is foolish. I need to correct that and since I'll have access to the studs...

Placement of the Dyna-plate was my idea but I didn't think about where it was located on the inside.

From the unit to the furthest point in Seaweed is less than ten feet. Small boats really are a treat when it comes to stuff like this. A friend suggested 6 gauge as standard and since the runs will be so short.....

Anyway, thanks psneeld. I appreciate the advice.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:01 PM   #123
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It wouldn't save that much wire to daisy chain... I'll rethink that part. Basically not using it (the Dyna-plate) is foolish. I need to correct that and since I'll have access to the studs...

Placement of the Dyna-plate was my idea but I didn't think about where it was located on the inside.

From the unit to the furthest point in Seaweed is less than ten feet. Small boats really are a treat when it comes to stuff like this. A friend suggested 6 gauge as standard and since the runs will be so short.....

Anyway, thanks psneeld. I appreciate the advice.
A bit of a hijack....Not sure what you think a Dynaplate is or does...after I removed the old lorans from my boat...I got rid of my dynaplate.

The aren't really needed for the vast majority of electronic systems now and really arent part of the galvanic bonding system...at least as far as I know, taught, read, etc....
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:19 AM   #124
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Al... just to tweak you a bit, but I seen no way for you or a guest to re-board from the water without on-deck assistance. Is there a swim ladder I'm missing?

(and yes, I worry about stuff like that)

Curious.
Yes, there's a built in ladder on the starboard side. It's in the retracted, flush position.


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Al just makes sure he rafts with boats that have a swimming ladder down!

Al - That's pretty fancy. No vert supports on cockpit canopy in your way for falling overboard... so you can more often make use of neighbor's swim ladder. LOL

Yes, I wanted to eliminate the need for vertical supports. I'm sure Craig has some pictures of me in the water in need of my boarding ladder after falling in.
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:59 AM   #125
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Al... just to tweak you a bit, but I seen no way for you or a guest to re-board from the water without on-deck assistance. Is there a swim ladder I'm missing?

(and yes, I worry about stuff like that)
Wonder if M/V Oliver has found the need for one? That there wasn't one as standard equipment did surprise me.......

Curious.

Nope. I really don't like the idea of a swim ladder embedded in the platform, as the presents a great possibility of rust, and rust streaks. I do have multiple life rings on the FB for easy access. Don't plan on changing it. Besides we have a high freeboard, along with railings or grab handles throughout.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:56 AM   #126
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Now I understand why you guys talk about Minimalism, I looked into the differences in Gas Prices between the US and Europe and thats amazing.

Average Gas Price (today) in the US $2.75 per gallon or $0.73 per liter.

Average Gas Price (today) in The Netherlands $2.15 per liter or $8.15 per gallon.

Now I understand, to make the biggest profit you need to buy a lot of it

Link: National average Gas price comparison, USA

Link: Gas Prices in Netherlands
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #127
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Average Gas Price (today) in the US $2.75 per gallon or $0.73 per liter.

Average Gas Price (today) in The Netherlands $2.15 per liter or $8.15 per gallon.[/URL]
In Qatar we pay 88 cents a gallon for low-test (91 octane) and $1.04 a gallon for normal 97 octane. But this place is an anomaly because the government subsidizes fuel.

Next door in Dubai the costs are about the same as the US. Makes it real expensive to drive all those big V-8 Landcruisers around town!
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:05 AM   #128
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I have been at it for quite awhile. When I started offshore runs it was with a magnetic compass, flashing depth sounder, and paper chart DR plots. An RDF was next. Then the big jump to single track Loran A tuned by an oscilloscope. Off the NC coast the radio conversation was something like this. "Where are you?" "fishing the 1800 line." We tried to stay near a line so that we would have one LOP. A paper chart printing bottom machine came next. Then auto tracking LORAN A and C.

Fast forward to today. While I don't have the latest generation of electronic suites, I have most all. Radar with chart overlay, 2 10" displays, Hi Def fish finder, auto pilot and a host of other gadgets. Not what I call minimalist, but far from impressing the yachty crowd.

As far as creature comforts, yeah we are a little over the top. However, outfitting the boat may not be about just one person. The mate should be happy if you want that person along. While I get the things I want, I make sure that she is taken care of as well.

One flat calm evening with absolutely no wind, I saw a guy rowing his dinghy while towing his sailboat into the Thoroughfare at Tangier Island. He was doing what he wanted, and I admired him for it. There is room for all kinds on the water.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:01 PM   #129
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One flat calm evening with absolutely no wind, I saw a guy rowing his dinghy while towing his sailboat into the Thoroughfare at Tangier Island. He was doing what he wanted, and I admired him for it. There is room for all kinds on the water.
Damn... Hope he made it to destination before current turned against him. When young, been there, done that... but not row-towing something as large/deep hulled as a sailboat.
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:49 PM   #130
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Art, you just reminded me of when I was living on St. Thomas, USVI. There was this young couple in their early 20's from England. They sailed down the coast of Europe and Africa and made their way to the Caribbean in a 22 ft. sailboat. Every morning they would be in their leaking inflatable dinghy heading to downtown. She would drive the dink and he would be pumping air the whole way. I did get to meet them one time and had a short chat. Unfortunately for me, I never really got to know them.
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:52 PM   #131
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Art, you just reminded me of when I was living on St. Thomas, USVI. There was this young couple in their early 20's from England. They sailed down the coast of Europe and Africa and made their way to the Caribbean in a 22 ft. sailboat. Every morning they would be in their leaking inflatable dinghy heading to downtown. She would drive the dink and he would be pumping air the whole way. I did get to meet them one time and had a short chat. Unfortunately for me, I never really got to know them.
That is funny Tony. Avatar is old picture of our Tolly. 10' +/- Quick-Silver rubber dink on forward cabin deck developed slow leak in its inflatable v-bottom... could not find it to save my life, even by adding water inside and following bubbles. When pumped up and rigid the 8 hp Nissan would make it go like hell. Carrying just me I figure she's reach 22/23 mph; with wife aboard maybe 17. Soon as v-bottom lost much air no more planing at all. I carried pump aboard all the time. Sold it and picked up Crestliner FRP four seater tow behind with 50 hp Johnson. Much more fun and easier to maintain, for more reasons than just inflating the tubes. Don't think I'll ever have another inflatable.
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:10 PM   #132
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I met two young guys from Winnipeg, Manitoba who paddled upstream on the (Northern) Red River in a 17 foot touring canoe to near Fargo. They then portaged over to the Mississipi and paddled downstream to New Orleans. Along the way they picked up sponsorship from the canoe manufacturer, which paid for their food and other minimal expenses.


They weren't ready to quit when they got to the Gulf of Mexico, so they decided to follow the US coast to Mexico. They kept getting food & beer money from their sponsor, even enough for new sleeping bags so decided to continue on.


They eventually called it quits off the coast of Brazil after 18 months. They endured (only) 2 rollovers, getting robbed of all their belongings twice, torrential downpours, dehydration, close encounters with sharks; but had the time of their life.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:23 PM   #133
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Has anyone here actually taken the truly siimplified approach towards their own power-cruising? What type of systems and gear did you dispense with that most of today's press would consider "absolutely necessary?"
In another thread quite awhile ago, Tad Roberts posted a link to what I consider a fairly amazing accomplishment and is one of the coolest vessels I've ever seen. The video speaks for itself, so I won't get into a description of it.

A Visit Aboard RAVEN, Form Following Function - OffCenterHarbor.com

While I would not call Raven a minimalist approach to cruising, it's certainly a very novel way of getting maximum use out of minimal space.

My wife and I have done our share of "boat camping" using our 17' Arima Sea Ranger trailer boat. We would launch in Anacortes and go out into the San Juans. We have property on a small, private island and would sleep in the forecabin and cook on a Coleman stove at the dock.

It was a lot of fun and we look back on those "cruises" fondly.

When in the late 1990s we decided we'd like to explore by boat the Inside Passage waters we'd been flying over for almost two decades in a floatplane, our priorities for whatever boat we got were (in order): reliability in terms of power, systems, and construction; build quality; capability of dealing with the conditions we'd encounter; good visibility; decent on-board storage; and a decent degree of comfort. And of course, it had to fit what we had budgeted for the idea.

The boat we got is not an example of minimalist boating by any means. But we and the previous owners have managed to maintain its manuracturer's early-70s KISS design and systems philosophy: with the exception of the fuel tanks, electronics, and the substitution of six 6vdc golf cart batteries in place of the boat's stock dual 8D setup, the boat remains bone stock after 41 years.

There isn't really anything on this boat that we feel we could dispense with. We could probably get by without the generator-- the boat we chartered before buying our own didn't have one. But we like having it on board and use it on the days we don't go anywhere on the main engines.

We could certainly cruise successfully in a single-engine boat--- the charter boat was a single--- but as the boat we bought turned out to be a twin (something that had not been on the priority list), we have come to the point where we will never have anything other than a multi-engine boat.

Over the 16 years we've had this boat so far, we've talked occasionally of moving up to a larger, newer, more luxurious boat for our PNW cruising (the one we have doesn't even have built-in heat on it). But we keep coming back to the fact that this boat provides exactly what we need for our cruising in this region. It needs a lot of cosmetic attention, something we are rather looking forward to doing when we get more time. But the boat met the priority list we drew up prior to buying it, and it still does.

The priority list for our boating in Europe is totally different because the circumstances are totally different. But our PNW boat is the equivelent of an old pickup truck: Runs great, needs some body work. We'll probably own it until we are no longer physically capable of using it.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:42 PM   #134
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...our PNW boat is the equivelent of an old pickup truck: Runs great, needs some body work. We'll probably own it until we are no longer physically capable of using it.
Marin

It makes me happy to see people so happy as you two with their well taken care of classic pleasure cruiser.

Our 1977 Tolly is in same category as your GB, in that even though not quite same age, it is from the 70's. We also keep ours stock as possible; like it that way. Doubt we would ever sell unless in latter years we decide to cruise the coast to Alaska and/or Mexico; SF our fulcrum. Then, 45 to 60 foot boats will be reviewed. Diesel nearly for sure - OMG, did gasoline Art say that??

Stay Happy, Stay Boating! - Art
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:42 PM   #135
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In another thread quite awhile ago, Tad Roberts posted a link to what I consider a fairly amazing accomplishment and is one of the coolest vessels I've ever seen. The video speaks for itself, so I won't get into a description of it.

A Visit Aboard RAVEN, Form Following Function - OffCenterHarbor.com
Marin / Tad - AMAZING Build-Out of a custom boat. Thanks for posting.

If you'd like, please post this video link onto AXE / Matt's thread. I believe Matt would be pleased to see this video (if he hasn't already).


Again, Amazing!


PS: I'd be pleased to post it on Matt's thread if you'd rather.
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:53 PM   #136
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Marin

It makes me happy to see people so happy as you two with their well taken care of classic pleasure cruiser.
Well, in the interest of honesty, our boat is not as well taken care of as it should be or deserves to be. This is not from lack of interest or desire, but from lack of time. We keep the boat outside because we use it as much as a getaway cabin on weekends as we do actually taking it out. And we don't want to spend our weekends on a boat staring out at the inside of a boathouse. Not when we have a slip with a million dollar view of Bellingham Bay and the islands.

The boat is certainly not neglected. But between work and the weather, we are simply unable to give the exterior the attention it needs to bring it up to snuff. So we put covers on what we can and keep after things as best we can, but it really needs a full summer of almost full-time attention. Almost all the exterior teak needs rebedding and refinishing, the whole boat needs to be painted, the deck needs some re-seam work, and so on. We intend to do all this in a few years but in the meantime we can only do what we can do.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:20 PM   #137
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Well, in the interest of honesty, our boat is not as well taken care of as it should be or deserves to be. This is not from lack of interest or desire, but from lack of time. We keep the boat outside because we use it as much as a getaway cabin on weekends as we do actually taking it out. And we don't want to spend our weekends on a boat staring out at the inside of a boathouse. Not when we have a slip with a million dollar view of Bellingham Bay and the islands.

The boat is certainly not neglected. But between work and the weather, we are simply unable to give the exterior the attention it needs to bring it up to snuff. So we put covers on what we can and keep after things as best we can, but it really needs a full summer of almost full-time attention. Almost all the exterior teak needs rebedding and refinishing, the whole boat needs to be painted, the deck needs some re-seam work, and so on. We intend to do all this in a few years but in the meantime we can only do what we can do.
IMHO - Pleasure-Boats are primarily for enjoyment, not show pieces. However, some to many boat owners disagree with that outlook and put as much or more time, $$$, and effort into the Bling as they do the "Pleasure Use" of their Floating Thing! "Each to Their Own"... defines it best in this case!

Similar to you, we too could spend more time caring for exterior items on our boat. But what the heck - some day we will do a really concerted cosmetic and mechanical/structural exterior Bling-A-Ling to our Tolly. And, then we'll enjoy the heck out of using her for another large group of years - till the next Bling Brigade needs doing!

Happy Boat-Enjoyment/Bling Daze! - Art


PS: We're 100 miles door to door too.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:30 PM   #138
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Cool short film of someone doing it..."Twenty Eight Feet - life on a little wooden boat"

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Old 12-05-2014, 12:04 AM   #139
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Cool short film of someone doing it..."Twenty Eight Feet - life on a little wooden boat"
Interesting video. Thanks, Murray.
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:14 AM   #140
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For newbies......

There usually a big difference in the approach in fitting out a boat that is lived on or cruises for months at a time than a weekender. Liveaboards/long term cruisers will almost always ensure the basics of life are at the top of the "needs" list. Things that give a good night's sleep, if that includes air conditioning then so be it. If they want fresh produce that needs a big galley with gadgets...so be it. Heads can play an important part. A comfy place to "lounge".

Even liveaboards run the gamut of sparse to luxurious but for that I would say much is ultimately financial and then limited by boat volume/capability. One huge factor is climate the boat will be used in if the owner doesn't have the option to change it.

Finally, you just have personal preference. Some love washing dishes by hand. Some may prefer to grill 90% of their food and want a flying bridge or cockpit with a huge built in wet bar grilling area and the interior galley might be tiny. Ya just never know what people consider "necessary".
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