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Old 12-07-2014, 11:00 PM   #181
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Well you don't need to apologize to me. And I appreciate the 30 years of electrical experience you bring to the board.
My point is that are many talented, trained and passionate members here that ask "why" in their own way- and I think the last thing you would want to do is to elevate yourself to the role of knowing the final answer on any subject. We all bring something to the table. And as hard as it may be to admit, there are plenty on this board that understand what makes a boat continue to float and move. I believe this board serves as a source for "how to", and just as importantly serves as a source of a "nice job!" 😉


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Old 12-07-2014, 11:02 PM   #182
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Kulas, you applied electrical theory as a ?
Caulder? Who's that?
Did you mean Calder?
Is that Niger Calder the boat guy?
or Nigel Calder the Science writer?
And which book are you referring to?


You got me to thinking, so now I am questioning.
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:12 AM   #183
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Ok, 3rd time to try to post this. Yeah, I know I should do it elsewhere but i'm slow to learn, and getting slower.

Janice,

You have not done anything wrong by bonding the through hulls. There is BIG opinion difference about to do or not to do. It also depends upon a lot of other factors.

IF the through hull and all the metal attached to it are the SAME metal, and I mean the SAME, and that metal is TRUE BRONZE, meaning copper, tin, NO ZINC or less than 1%-2% and a tiny bit of some other materials then often they are better off not bonded. The other metal pieces would include the hose barb, elbows, pipe nipples,tees, etc.,etc. Then the hose that attaches to it is not conductive then the assembly as a whole is now isolated electrically from the rest of the boat. As long as the isolation is good bonding is not required. Good quality marine bronzes will last 30 --50 years or more so bonding is not required. Bonding will not really add to their life. These good bronzes are HIGHLY resistant to corrosion.

Unfortunately that situation is getting harder to achieve. Many fittings are available in good bronzes but many are not. A case in point is a pipe nipple and this part is often needed but should be avoided if possible as I have found they are difficult to impossible to find in true bronze that would be suitable for seawater use..

Some bronzes are not really bronze. Manganese bronze is actaully a brass yet is used for propellors and as long as zinced properly will last many, many years. The word bronze is used often where it should not be used.

If other not so good bronzes or a brass must be used then bonding may be required to protect that less than desireable brass plus a regular check and changeout. I am not recommending brasses in seawater.

Where more than one metal is in contact with another and immersed in the seawater, [ EG. bronze propellor and SS shaft or a rudder] then bonding may be required if zincing cannot effectively be done. It does happen. There are other situations that apply.

I have seen boats where the through hull assembly was protected by its own zinc, not tied to a boat bonding system.

SOme metals such as SS or aluminum, isolated brackets for a swimgrid for example, are better protected each by their own zinc.

Bonding , in some cases, may make an external current leak worse by allowing a pathway through the bonding system from one side of the boat to the other or from on board back to negative, damaging a through hull or some other part in the process.

Of course good electrical mtce. can keep these possibilities to a dull roar but they should be kept in mind.

It's a quandry, to bond or not to bond and there are good reasons for both.

Two books about corrosion are:
Metal Corrosion in boats - Nigel Warren
Boatowners Guide to Corrosion - Everett Collier

These books also give some help but are more general:
Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual - Nigel Calder
Boatowners Illustrated Electrical Hnadbook - Charlie Wing


There are others.

I'm not trying to expalin all here as there is a huge amount of info and there are marine electricians and engineers who specialize in this stuff.
But you can become fairly knowledgeable and avoid many problems with some good learing from those books and some other sources.
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:32 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Forkliftt View Post
Well you don't need to apologize to me. And I appreciate the 30 years of electrical experience you bring to the board.
My point is that are many talented, trained and passionate members here that ask "why" in their own way- and I think the last thing you would want to do is to elevate yourself to the role of knowing the final answer on any subject. We all bring something to the table. And as hard as it may be to admit, there are plenty on this board that understand what makes a boat continue to float and move. I believe this board serves as a source for "how to", and just as importantly serves as a source of a "nice job!" 😉


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Twin Lehman 135's
✌️

Well said. I am honestly surprised what people will say to others on forums that they most likely wouldn't say to them in person. I shouldn't be surprised but sometimes as I read the Trawler forum I ask myself "did that person really just type that? Seriously?" And I look for clues of it being an inside joke among friends ... Most of the time it's not.

Now if someone is in need of calling someone clueless, hey I will raise my hand because I do qualify.

And I am truly amazed at the level of experience on this forum. It astounds me that if one has any boat issue or question there is someone on this forum that has some knowledge and often times, extensive knowledge on the subject. It is a GREAT resource for the clueless like me and I for one have learned a lot just lurking. But the pissing matches and name calling are a bit much.

Fair skies and low rollers...


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Old 12-08-2014, 12:56 AM   #185
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Two books about corrosion are:
Metal Corrosion in boats - Nigel Warren
Boatowners Guide to Corrosion - Everett Collier
C lectric

Thanks for mentioning… Good books. The link here to Nigel Warren’s book has considerable input to read.

Anode - zinc, magnesium, aluminum / Diode - brass, bronze, ss, monel / exterior current / interior current / salt water / fresh water / hot marina / cold marina / 12v / 120w / 240w / ... Spooky stuff regarding keeping metals in good condition!

Metal Corrosion in boats - Nigel Warren

http://books.google.com/books?id=-PntzHwpwfoC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=fals e

Boat owners Guide to Corrosion - Everett Collier

http://books.google.com/books?id=TVlKPgAACAAJ&dq=Boatowners+Guide+to+Corro sion+-+Everett+Collier&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JTuFVIyQLYefgwSPv4G YDQ&ved=0CCsQ6wEwAA
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Old 12-08-2014, 09:40 AM   #186
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We do have simple systems and the comforts that are important to us like nice hot showers, and washing machine.
Am curious how big your water tanks are and how often you need to refill if you are running a washer onboard.

I had 400 gallons of FW onboard but a very old fashioned washer that would suck them dry in no time. Certainly newer models are more energy and water efficient.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #187
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The ultra-minimalistic approach to sail cruising is quite common .......but I have yet to see or hear from anyone who has truly applied the minimal approach to power that the sailors seem so comfortable with. ....
Has anyone here actually taken the truly siimplified approach...."
I think the first thing to consider is that sailing itself requires being what some would consider physically uncomfortable. What with the heeling, tacking, working the rigging etc. The next thing to consider is the actual space available of a given length sailboat compared to a powerboat. I think the minimalistic approach of sailors has to do with the fact that sailors and power boaters are of a different mindset and personality.
When we lived aboard our sailboats we would have had the same amenities as we do on our trawler IF we had the room. As for physical comfort, we actually enjoyed the heeling and work involved. That's a personality thing. Some people are just not going to be the slightest bit uncomfortable no matter what.
From a financial perspective, many sailors don't have the available cash flow necessary for cruising or even short weekend trips that a powerboat guy has. When I lived in Biloxi, Ms. I saw a lot of this. Young couples didn't have the spare cash to power their boat to Ship Island and back - probably about 10 - 12 miles away. When I had my sailboat, I couldn't use 60 gals of diesel in 3 years. I usually gave it away and put fresh fuel in the boat. On my 36' Mainship capable of 22 kts, we run typically a 6 Kts at an average cost of about $2/mile. My sailboat - I could cross the gulf of Mex approx. 1000-1200 miles on under 10 gals of diesel. That's what it took to run the fridge and keep the batteries charges.

If you want to see truly simplistic, this is actual photos I took of a boat neighbor in Tx,



.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:50 AM   #188
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Am curious how big your water tanks are and how often you need to refill if you are running a washer onboard.

I had 400 gallons of FW onboard but a very old fashioned washer that would suck them dry in no time. Certainly newer models are more energy and water efficient.
We have two 75 gallon tanks. The washer is a Haier HLP23E It has about 6 different cycles. One of them is wash with no rinse. One is spin only. We use the wash only cycle and use ammonia for the cleaning agent, no soap. The ammonia does not require rinsing. So a load only uses about 11 gallons. Clothes come out clean and smelling fresh. We then use the spin only cycle and hang up to dry. I usually fill up once every week. Between 120 and 150 gallons. We do not waste water, but we do not go overboard on conservation either like we did when we were on our sailboat with a 17 gallon tank.
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:16 AM   #189
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We have two 75 gallon tanks. The washer is a Haier HLP23E It has about 6 different cycles. One of them is wash with no rinse. One is spin only. We use the wash only cycle and use ammonia for the cleaning agent, no soap. The ammonia does not require rinsing. So a load only uses about 11 gallons. Clothes come out clean and smelling fresh. We then use the spin only cycle and hang up to dry. I usually fill up once every week. Between 120 and 150 gallons. We do not waste water, but we do not go overboard on conservation either like we did when we were on our sailboat with a 17 gallon tank.
- How much ammonia per gallon water?
- Add ammonia before throwing in cloths?
- Or, add onto cloths wit it already diluted in a container with bit of water?
- Or, add ammonia after clothes are wet and machine has agitated a bit?
- How long does machine need wash cycle for clean cloths using ammonia?
- No ammonia odor at all without rinse cycle?
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:31 AM   #190
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- How much ammonia per gallon water?
- Add ammonia before throwing in cloths?
- Or, add onto cloths wit it already diluted in a container with bit of water?
- Or, add ammonia after clothes are wet and machine has agitated a bit?
- How long does machine need wash cycle for clean cloths using ammonia?
- No ammonia odor at all without rinse cycle?
Same questions, amigo.
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:38 AM   #191
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- How much ammonia per gallon water?
- Add ammonia before throwing in cloths?
- Or, add onto cloths wit it already diluted in a container with bit of water?
- Or, add ammonia after clothes are wet and machine has agitated a bit?
- How long does machine need wash cycle for clean cloths using ammonia?
- No ammonia odor at all without rinse cycle?
We use an 8oz cup with 4 oz water and 4 oz ammonia and just dump it in as the washer is filling up. There is no ammonia smell. You can get lemon scented ammonia for a little lemon scent. I believe the cycle is 12 minutes. This cycle uses 11 gallons of water.
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:45 AM   #192
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This wash with ammonia and no rinse laundry works very well. Obviously it would not if I actually worked for a living and came home with filthy clothes everyday like in my previous life, but for normal boat life it works great.
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:04 PM   #193
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We use an 8oz cup with 4 oz water and 4 oz ammonia and just dump it in as the washer is filling up. There is no ammonia smell. You can get lemon scented ammonia for a little lemon scent. I believe the cycle is 12 minutes. This cycle uses 11 gallons of water.
R2G, Thanks! That = approx 1/3 oz ammonia per gallon water. I plan to try that in home washer and play with ammonia volume. I know ammonia is powerful cleaning agent.

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Old 12-08-2014, 03:17 PM   #194
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R2G, Thanks! That = approx 1/3 oz ammonia per gallon water. I plan to try that in home washer and play with ammonia volume. I know ammonia is powerful cleaning agent.
I've been using ammonia for a few years afloat. Basically it does work, no smells left in clothes but my whites are not as white as they should be. Periodically a trip to a real washing machine and bleach makes all well again.

And if not, I chop 'em up and turn the shirts into work rags. Personally, the lemon scent didn't work for me. It's artificial.

I'm using my sink and start with the delicates, moving on to the outer wear.

For the females out here, no issues. None.
And my clothes don't smell funky.

Plain cheap ammonia is okay. And that odor totally disappears when the clothes are dry. It does not reappear in a rain storm.

By using totally fresh water the salty icky feel of the fabric isn't an issue. I prefer ammonia to hauling in dirty clothes to a laundromat and by doing what I wear each night (a couple teaspoons) it's easy to have a locker full of clean clothes.

But mostly I'm wearing skirts and white blouses... light weight fabrics that dry overnight (or with the aid of a fan even quicker) and the faster stuff dries the less smell. By putting my clothes on a hanger they dry even faster in a breeze out in the cockpit.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:28 AM   #195
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For folks with room Webasco makes wash machines for Naval and other boats that washes and rinses with sea water , except for the Last rinse.

Probably other companies with similar units.
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:20 PM   #196
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Apparently, to some (not me!), an electric wine opener, matching set of napkin holder/ tray/ bowls, coffee maker and coffee bean grinder qualify as MINIMUM "needs" on a boat....😅Click image for larger version

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Old 12-12-2014, 10:46 PM   #197
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Apparently, to some (not me!), an electric wine opener, matching set of napkin holder/ tray/ bowls, coffee maker and coffee bean grinder qualify as MINIMUM "needs" on a boat....😅Attachment 35309
What??? No Keurig? You ARE roughing it!!
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:08 PM   #198
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Coming to think the capsule espresso machine is made for boats. No grinder, no grounds mess,quick to heat. I`ve only used them in Hotels, they seem good.
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Old 12-13-2014, 12:26 AM   #199
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Keurig at dock and home is okay.

Bunn with ss thermal carafe is the way to go for early morning departure for us.
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Old 12-13-2014, 12:31 AM   #200
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A nice cup of coffee is one luxury I need to have.
I boil the water on either the metho or butane stove, and a use stainless steel French Press like this to make coffee. They are pretty much indestructible, and keep the coffee hot for much longer than the glass ones.

Simple and effective.
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