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Old 01-31-2016, 09:02 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
At 6'1" tall a step 4' above my feet is difficult for me to negotiate while fully immersed, especially under duress. The ladder on my Whaler is about that shallow, and so I know this from direct experience.
Ah...you saying you can't pucker up, with arms braced on the swim step and while floating, raise your feet to a ladder rung 2 feet below the water surface George..?

I find it very easy, and I'm nearly 6' tall. 'course as our swim step is slatted we can get a good grip there to help lever, (otherwise Art's knotted rope hanging nearby is a good idea - we did that when we had an inferior type of ladder, I admit)...and I do have an Arnie S. sort of physique and all...
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:06 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
At 6'1" tall a step 4' above my feet is difficult for me to negotiate while fully immersed, especially under duress. The ladder on my Whaler is about that shallow, and so I know this from direct experience.
I almost see your point. The 2' immersed seemed a bit light to me as well. Now, I'm assuming a foot of your head and neck is above the water level so really about 3' below the ladder. Still sounds like a lot, but he talks about the angle of the ladder and the ease so maybe with Peter's ladder it's not as you and I imagine it. I would prefer a little more length of the ladder if possible.
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:59 PM   #163
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Ah...you saying you can't pucker up, with arms braced on the swim step and while floating, raise your feet to a ladder rung 2 feet below the water surface George..?

I find it very easy, and I'm nearly 6' tall. 'course as our swim step is slatted we can get a good grip there to help lever, (otherwise Art's knotted rope hanging nearby is a good idea - we did that when we had an inferior type of ladder, I admit)...and I do have an Arnie S. sort of physique and all...
Well good on ya. Ever tried it dead worn out?
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:22 PM   #164
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Well good on ya. Ever tried it dead worn out?
Ya know.... here's a little story; about getting out of the water onto a swim step with no ladder available at the time: Pretty well exhausted. In calm water during dusk. Water temp was cool but OK. No injury. Real good condition. 55 yrs. age.

BTW: This was not an emergency situation. Neither was it for any type of fun. But I felt approximately $300 worth of being compelled to do it!

Situation: My 6'2" 250 lb. weight lifter son decided to grab ahold the top of a railing stanchion just as the boat pulled back away from dock by a wind gust. He slipped slightly on the finger dock and ended up pulling all his weight against top of the stanchion at side entry slider of salon; therefore there was only one side of it with fixed railing and it was fastened by a 30 + yr old torpedo base with four bolts. Well...suffice it to say... a straw in a coffee frap drink is equally as rigid as that stanchion was after that feat of coordination.

Next day: I decided to unscrew the bolts and repair the stanchion's stability by refastening its torpedo shaped base. First I removed a panel inside salon. Then I stood on finger dock and reached into right front pocket to pull out an allen wrench. And, as I pulled it out - out flew my sterling silver money clip with approx. $300 firmly folded into its confines. With dropped jaw I watched it quickly flutter down into water and disappear.

So: I called my wife and asked her to come to the boat for safety reasons; as I was going to put on a mask and go diving in search of the $$$-clip. Linda arrived with big grin and I began to laugh too. She pushed/held boat away from finger dock and in I went. Must have dived in search of that clip fifteen + + times. Water was about eight feet deep so there was no problem holding breath for over a minute each dive down. Finally gave up as the bottom was super soft mud and no light to see. I figured the $$$-clip was a loss and anyway it may have fluttered way away from where I was searching with fingers and a close pronged rake.

Then came the fun of getting back aboard. I moved to transom and realized I'd not dropped a ladder that was tightly hooked up to the transom. I was as bit out of energy after spending well over half an hour diving, scraping a muddy bottom, and holding my breath quite long each time. I was also beginning to shiver, as the water was some what chilly.

Anyway... Linda was in the boat and I figured this should be no sweat to get onto swim platform without a ladder. So I stayed silent and tried to board. Upon third attempt I was able to haul my butt up and onto the swim platform that was about 14" above the water. Wherein I lay there for several moments feeling somewhat dizzy before I climbed back up the ladder that was between the platform and sun deck.

Therefore I say - WOW... if not well prepared once falling overboard, especially if adverse conditions are present... it would not be easy at all to survive.



PS: I then offered a friend who cleans boat bottoms $150 to locate the $$$ clip. He dived using a hookah and also came up empty handed. That stanchion became one of the most expensive items on the boat! -
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Old 06-20-2016, 09:52 AM   #165
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911 Ladder

I want to thank Scott for his wisdom on this subject. I researched many off the shelf rebording ladders. Trying to find the appropriate one.

I was inspired by the mountain climbing ladders:

Black Diamond Etrier - Aiders & Etriers | Backcountry.com

Then I remembered that my son Jean-Sébastien gave me some mountain equipement strap with two safety hooks. Then I tried to make one using the KISS principle.

And I am satisfied of the results. A gift from my son could save a life (including mine).

Thank you Scott and JS!
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:41 AM   #166
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A simple thing to do is just leave a rope on your swim platform that both ends are tied off. Just reach up to grab it and pull it off. Make the loop long enough for a foothold to boost yourself up by standing up with your foot on the loop. Of course not long enough to get fouled in your prop.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:07 PM   #167
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911 Ladder

Hello Folivier,

Thank you for the great suggestion for those who do have a swim platform.

Unfortunately, Pilgrim 40 do not have a swim platform as it has a fantail stern.

I do have a Starboard ladder and the inflatable dinghy tied most of the time. I do have a second Port rope ladder as a back-up.

Kindest regards, Normand
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:14 PM   #168
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You could probably do similar just make the loop so that it hangs in the water at the right level. Then hopefully when you stand up you can reach high enough to pull yourself over the gunwale. I've used this a few times in a smaller boat.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:34 PM   #169
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I regularly just dive off for a swim.
Swim a couple thousand feet out and back and climb back on easily.
No boarding ladder.
Just grab the transom and pull myself in.
Really easy compared to doing 80 chin ups on my chin up bar i use a lot.
I try to stay in good shape.
I do yoga, karate, jog, have free weights I lift, skipping, surf, water ski, swim almost every day about 1 to 2 miles.
Just keep diving off and reboarding till its easy for you.
I'm not small or light either so have to lift my bulk back into the boat.
At 190 pounds its harder for me than my 110 pound daughter.
She has no problem, and very little to pull in.
But she is also only 65 inches tall, not 74 inches tall like me.
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Old 06-20-2016, 03:18 PM   #170
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I regularly just dive off for a swim.
Swim a couple thousand feet out and back and climb back on easily.
No boarding ladder.
Just grab the transom and pull myself in.
Really easy compared to doing 80 chin ups on my chin up bar i use a lot.
I try to stay in good shape.
I do yoga, karate, jog, have free weights I lift, skipping, surf, water ski, swim almost every day about 1 to 2 miles.
Just keep diving off and reboarding till its easy for you.
I'm not small or light either so have to lift my bulk back into the boat.
At 190 pounds its harder for me than my 110 pound daughter.
She has no problem, and very little to pull in.
But she is also only 65 inches tall, not 74 inches tall like me.
Sounds great until.....you're experiencing pain....perhaps a cramp, perhaps an injury, perhaps your stomach....Evaluating getting back on the boat needs to not be done versus a healthy young or middle aged boater, but an injured or older or both boater, the least capable boater you'll see on your boat. The person in the water at midnight may have fallen in accidentally and have hit their head or broken their arm on the way.
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Old 06-20-2016, 04:37 PM   #171
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Sounds great until.....you're experiencing pain....perhaps a cramp, perhaps an injury, perhaps your stomach....Evaluating getting back on the boat needs to not be done versus a healthy young or middle aged boater, but an injured or older or both boater, the least capable boater you'll see on your boat. The person in the water at midnight may have fallen in accidentally and have hit their head or broken their arm on the way.
All very valid points.
But if someone was older in bad shape they are not allowed on board my boat unless wearing a life jacket.
My neighbor likes going with me out in the boat.
But she is overweight and doesn't take care of herself and sucks at swimming.
So life jacket is on before she climbs in, and stays on until after she is back on land.
My daughter who is an extremely strong swimmer and fit when she was wanting to stop wearing a life jacket when she was about 10 ish.
I had a good friend drive incase i had to dive off and rescue her.
But she didn't know what was coming.
On her first trip out without a life jacket i grabbed her without warning and threw her off the boat at about 25 mph to see how she reacted.
She just dog paddled calmly till we circled back to get her.
I said okay then you don't have to always wear it since you passed my test.
I really don't think if you're not capable and fit and can swim a mile or more that anyone should be on a boat unless in a life jacket.
Even just wear an inflatable.
I intentionally dive off regardless if the waves are 3 or 4 footers or the water is cold.
I did fall of once by accident and it was nothing to me.
I was laughing when i popped up.
Water people generally like water and would be diving in for swims regularly I assumed.
I love water and a day without swimming sucks IMO.

And rhe earlier comments by some back a page or 2...salt water doesn't burn my eyes or leave me blind.
Now a chlorine filled pool is another topic entirely.
That burns like crap and gives me blood shot eyes.
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:02 PM   #172
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You are able to do what you want...but just to bust your chops....


Water survival is not about long distance swimming...in fact foolish in most cases/ boat emergencies to try to swim in open water for more than a couple hundred yards. If not familiar with the waters you could be fighting and losing to a current....then close to exhaustion and hypothermia with nothing gained.


Overweight people are usually more buoyant and less susceptible to hypothermia. If you and your daughter are in fantastic shape, I recommend gumby suits for you...your neighbor might be just fine...


And you threw a 10 year old off a boat at 25 mph?
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:25 PM   #173
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:30 PM   #174
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You are able to do what you want...but just to bust your chops....


Water survival is not about long distance swimming..


And you threw a 10 year old off a boat at 25 mph?
I read that too and hardly know how to respond. But I personally consider that terribly irresponsible. Honestly, throwing anyone off a boat is. We don't even allow throwing people into our pool.

Now back to the subject. The life jacket is fine, but it doesn't get them back into the boat, which is the topic. A lot of us have found getting back into our boats to be far more difficult than we really thought of it.
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:31 PM   #175
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At midnight you should be asleep on board or within an enclosed pilothouse.
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:43 PM   #176
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At midnight you should be asleep on board or within an enclosed pilothouse.
I think it's an assumption people shouldn't be falling in too. Sometimes people do other than as they should.

Now the ones I've seen and worried about are those returning at 2 AM to either an anchored or docked boat. They are often inebriated and I've seen a couple of them land in the water.
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:23 PM   #177
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I think (or hope) the story of a father throwing his 10 year old daughter ,without warning or life jacket, off a boat travelling at 25mph,was invented to illustrate a point or gain notoriety.
"There are old sailors,and bold sailors, but there are no old bold sailors".
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:50 PM   #178
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There was a time when I could climb back aboard my sailboat without assistance should the need arise. I was younger, fitter, and lighter back then. I was also a lot more stupid. As others have mentioned, most of the time and most of the year in our waters a fit, healthy person won't be able to climb out of the water unaided after 30-60 minutes in the water.

Now, I am fat and weak. There is no way I could climb back aboard my dinghy unassisted. Fortunately, the PO of my boat was very safety conscious. The NP43 has a very nice integrated swim ladder in the aft swim step. I can be deployed from the water. Since he always carried his dinghy on Weavery-type davits, it was usually blocked. He then had another swim ladder installed on the underside of the port side of the swim step. It also can be deployed from the water.

Even with this, he had a Lifesling on the rail at all times as well as a block and tackle at the ready on the boat deck rail. The idea was that he or his wife could easily hoist the other with the Lifesling and that block and tackle. The block and tackle sat out on the boat deck rail for 5 years and was never used, but it was always ready. I removed it when I bought the boat, but at some point I just might replace it.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:10 PM   #179
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Any method that gets you back aboard is great, be it a rigid ladder, web steps, low swim step or what ever. Just be sure you try it a couple times to be sure you can do it. I'm way too old and fat to pull my self out alone, but I have a MOB method that my wife can use with one finger that will pull me back aboard quickly. Folks worry about hypothermia, but the truth is after as little as 30 minutes in cold water, you can drown first due to loss of motor control if you don't have a life jacket or can get your self out quickly.
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:01 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Hurrying Nowhere View Post

My daughter who is an extremely strong swimmer and fit when she was wanting to stop wearing a life jacket when she was about 10 ish.
I had a good friend drive incase i had to dive off and rescue her.
But she didn't know what was coming.
On her first trip out without a life jacket i grabbed her without warning and threw her off the boat at about 25 mph to see how she reacted.
She just dog paddled calmly till we circled back to get her.
I said okay then you don't have to always wear it since you passed my test.
I understand what you say... I just do not understand why you do not realize the incorrectness/danger of this technique. Think it through. There are so many accidental items that could have occurred due to sooo many reasons. What you did sounds like a fun kick - till your daughter is dead - by having her neck snapped from hitting a semi submerged flotsam at 25 mph.
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