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Old 01-27-2016, 08:55 PM   #121
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I anchored at the stern and had three people in the boat with me. Decided to go over the side and scrape some barnacles.
I thought such a low current would be ok. However the current was too strong, I was being dragged under the boat. I could barely hang on to the swim platform. I could not get back into the boat, so we put out the ladder and they helped me back in. Our swim platform is 6 inches above the water, Without deploying the ladder, it would be very hard to get back in the boat. I had gone over and scraped before in another spot where no current exists. My son in law is able to get back up on the swim platform without the ladder.
It was a surprise to me how quickly a seemingly easy job turned into something definitely dangerous.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:33 PM   #122
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I anchored at the stern and had three people in the boat with me. Decided to go over the side and scrape some barnacles.
I thought such a low current would be ok. However the current was too strong, I was being dragged under the boat. I could barely hang on to the swim platform. I could not get back into the boat, so we put out the ladder and they helped me back in. Our swim platform is 6 inches above the water, Without deploying the ladder, it would be very hard to get back in the boat. I had gone over and scraped before in another spot where no current exists. My son in law is able to get back up on the swim platform without the ladder.
It was a surprise to me how quickly a seemingly easy job turned into something definitely dangerous.
Safety is habit and discipline. Your situation, which I'm sure you've learned from, brings one of our rules into play. No one goes into the water without the ladder being down and in place. They can be limber 18 year old's or old men, the ladder is just the right way to get back in.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:18 AM   #123
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And, no body pees while swimming in open water either!
Ah, yes, in that situation, the pee is silent, as in psea bathing...
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:19 AM   #124
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If our hinged ladder which is fixed to the swim platform is in the up position I`m fairly sure I could reach it from the water to pull it down into the water. I appreciate adverse conditions might interfere with grabbing it, but I don`t intentionally operate the boat with it in the water.
It has no retainer, and does not need one. I see a problem if the ladder is lashed in place like Art`s, someone in the water cannot swing it down without getting onto the platform to unlash it.
Seems to me it is safer if not lashed, though there are probably other ways more easily overcome, to ensure it stays upright, eg an open end plastic clip.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:21 AM   #125
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If our hinged ladder which is fixed to the swim platform is in the up position I`m fairly sure I could reach it from the water to pull it down into the water. I appreciate adverse conditions might interfere with grabbing it, but I don`t intentionally operate the boat with it in the water.
It has no retainer, and does not need one. I see a problem if the ladder is lashed in place like Art`s, someone in the water cannot swing it down without getting onto the platform to unlash it.
Seems to me it is safer if not lashed, though there are probably other ways more easily overcome, to ensure it stays upright, eg an open end plastic clip.
Bruce - That photo was taken with ladder left secured to railing under our covered berth just before leaving for a few weeks. I place the 6' swim/survival ladder firmly lashed by the knotted "pull U-self-up line" only when berthed and we leave for extended periods; or for close maneuvers around gas docks, etc. Otherwise a slight, small bungee cord holds ladder lightly in place; with "pull line" left dangling over transom for easy reach from water. Easily breakable tiny bungee cord hooks over ladder step that crosses word "The" in boat name. Enlarge photo to see the eye on transom that is in middle of "h" in "The". Bungee is so slight that with a tug on ladder it breaks or its hooks straighten and ladder comes right down. I've tested this from the water. If you can tug on ladder... you then have 6' of firm, wide, and broad steps with a knotted pull line that enables you to quickly get back aboard. Also, we often leave ladder in down position 24/7 when anchored. Fresh SF Delta water we frequent is warm enough for swimming from May into October; with mid summer months warm enough for hours swim at a time. I do all our bottom cleaning (which is not much necessary here), anode work, and general uw apparatus inspections/shining myself. IMO, part of the fun of owning a boat and staying in touch with its full range of needs is to often see (and feel) her "bottom" first hand. Our Tolly has great booty!! LOL
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:49 AM   #126
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I`m fairly sure I could reach it from the water to pull it down into the water.
Why are you only "fairly sure"?

I always suggest doing drills and trials, with plenty of knowledgeable company, when you're tired. Accidental overboards are usually under some duress, and get moreso as the incident unfolds. I've seen people trip and fall off the dock and that turn into an very uncomfortable situation.

sdowney brings up an important point: even seemingly modest current amplifies things greatly; going into the water with any kind of current should require a PFD, and a throwable with a whole lot of line attached ready to deploy.
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:01 PM   #127
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The PFD adds a whole new level to the game in a current. Alot of folk will not be able to pull a swimmer that's wearing a pfd against even a small current

Much like trying to pull a sea anchor.

YMMV
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:41 PM   #128
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Tought to wear a PFD when scraping the bottom of the boat....assuming sdowney717 was talking scraping barnacles far enough underwater.


Maybe FSTbottoms can shed some light on the best way to do it.


Me...just anchor normally and string a few lines from the bow aft on both sides. Pull yourself to the bow and work aft. The cloud/junk flows backwards and you are starting with the easier area first to build confidence.


If you think you would tire too much from bow to stern...maybe a hooka or tank is necessary.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:45 PM   #129
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The PFD adds a whole new level to the game in a current. Alot of folk will not be able to pull a swimmer that's wearing a pfd against even a small current

Much like trying to pull a sea anchor.

YMMV
While not easy...in currents up to 3 knots (about the fastest I have seen from NJ to FL) it is certainly not beyond the capability of most adults without handicaps or injuries. Maybe not fast or all at once...but leaning into it and snubbing, it can be done.

In places where a person might be a PIW and the current runs faster than that, yes an alternate method or more people may be necessary.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:21 PM   #130
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Our boat draws 3.5 feet, so in the cove behind the sand hook is a good spot for us to get out and work on the hull.

Between number 2 and 16 is where the currents were too strong, that was where I was being drug under.

the sand bar to the right is a nice quiet place, but the fishing there is non existent.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:24 PM   #131
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The PFD adds a whole new level to the game in a current. Alot of folk will not be able to pull a swimmer that's wearing a pfd against even a small current

Much like trying to pull a sea anchor.

YMMV
The person needs to be afloat and not in need of panicking (themselves or the crew) or over exertion before pulling them out of the water in the first place. Once grabbed , the pfd can be removed if need be. Also it is a heckuva lot easier to grab and hold a line tossed to you when you are wearing a pfd.

To imply "don't wear a PFD, it will make you hard to pull out of the water" , all I can say is wow....

A lot of, I'd say most folk will find it difficult to pull someone out of the water regardless, usually surprised because they've never tried it until an emergency.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:30 PM   #132
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While we are at it....when a person is pulled from the water, if there is ANY possibility of hypothermia....be as gentle with them as possible...they should not exert themselves as too vigorously...fast/more circulation from shut down extremities can cause shock.


Very simplified....EMTs...medical experts feel free to fix.


I just know more than 1 hypothermic victim that said they were fine dropped dead walking away from a USCG helo.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:49 PM   #133
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It's been said in a previous post, and I agree, that many things are possible in calm waters. I think if you go overboard in rough conditions your chances are just plain bad. Fatigue, and possibly hypothermia, will be factors to contend with of course, but let me tell you my one experience.

We went scuba diving off Puerto Rico in not ideal but very manageable conditions. 55 minutes later we surface in what has to be 6-7 foot seas (How they got up that fast i don't understand). Without the aid of both flotation devices (BC's in our case), and fins, I don't know we could have swam back and maneuvered back on board, even with the ladder down. My wife grabbed the ladders' bottom rung and she managed to hang on as a wave passed over the boat. As the bow fell off the crest, it lifted the transom, her (5'6"), and her dangling fins clear out of the water. Had she fallen, or had I not been able to kick clear that transom would have come down on us. My point is that the boarding ladder being both rigid and well attached was something I hadn't thought about till I saw this thread. Fact is if its rough, you won't be able to get to the boat and board without going through at least one wave. You'll need something to hang on to. I'd rather have a metal ladder than a rope one. It won't swing me under the boat.

Oh, if you're thinking sure but we had tanks to deal with etc. No we didn't. when we surfaced and swam back to the boat we took off our BC's and tanks and attached them to a line in the water. Safer getting off w/o them and then pull them in when that rough.

So moral of the story is if you do go overboard in rough conditions you will want to have some things with you. That's why you should never pee overboard at night without first putting your wetsuit, fins and PFD on
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:51 PM   #134
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While we are at it....when a person is pulled from the water, if there is ANY possibility of hypothermia....be as gentle with them as possible...they should not exert themselves as too vigorously...fast/more circulation from shut down extremities can cause shock.


Very simplified....EMTs...medical experts feel free to fix.


I just know more than 1 hypothermic victim that said they were fine dropped dead walking away from a USCG helo.
Cut away all wet clothing, wrap them in blankets, and talk with them. Don't rub extremities. Do not give them anything to eat or drink. Keep them conscious and calm.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:23 PM   #135
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While we are at it....when a person is pulled from the water, if there is ANY possibility of hypothermia....be as gentle with them as possible...they should not exert themselves as too vigorously...fast/more circulation from shut down extremities can cause shock.


Very simplified....EMTs...medical experts feel free to fix.


I just know more than 1 hypothermic victim that said they were fine dropped dead walking away from a USCG helo.
Assume hypothermia until proven otherwise and that takes some time of observation.

Dealing with someone who says they're fine, ok, can be a challenge sometimes.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:33 PM   #136
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Dealing with someone who says they're fine, ok, can be a challenge sometimes.
Oh Boy, are you right on point with that one! sure can be.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:38 PM   #137
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Oh Boy, are you right on point with that one! sure can be.
Hypothermia or sober enough to drive?
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:40 PM   #138
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The person needs to be afloat and not in need of panicking (themselves or the crew) or over exertion before pulling them out of the water in the first place. Once grabbed , the pfd can be removed if need be. Also it is a heckuva lot easier to grab and hold a line tossed to you when you are wearing a pfd.

To imply "don't wear a PFD, it will make you hard to pull out of the water" , all I can say is wow....

A lot of, I'd say most folk will find it difficult to pull someone out of the water regardless, usually surprised because they've never tried it until an emergency.
Again I am missing my mark in this thread. Sorry if any one took my comment to imply " don't wear a PFD ".

My written word sucks but a PFD can bring a different or unexpected problem to falling in when a current is involved. My hope is to simple prepare folk as best I can on a forum of what can be the result.

From the nosy neighbor files. Goes back a while but I try as best I can to share stuff that is important to me. For what ever reason. Again I apologize , no intent to miss direct any one. Just trying to point out that there is no one fix, no one appropriate response to the hypothetical of the original post. Keep as many tools in the box as one can based on information on hand.



Being a nosy nieghbor

Since I am at it, falling into choppy salt water has another unexpected result that I believe folk might want to consider. depending on how long you are in there. You will have a tough time seeing , your vision will be effected by the salt water in a fairly short amount of time. In the dark that also adds another level of difficulty to survive with.

I apologize for missing my mark, hope you all understand all I want to is maybe assist one person survive such.

So YMMV.
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:11 PM   #139
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OFB: no offense taken, I am not the one to cast the first stone on the "Intent vs possible interpretations" issue. There are quite a few newbies and impressionable folks here, and frankly a lot of corner cutters given a choice. Or put another way, those who haven't or don't do drills or practice safety and accident situations. For instance, on this thread and a few others, we found several who did not have a way to get themselves on board if they fell off to begin with. And so on...
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:17 PM   #140
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It's been said in a previous post, and I agree, that many things are possible in calm waters. I think if you go overboard in rough conditions your chances are just plain bad. Fatigue, and possibly hypothermia, will be factors to contend with of course, but let me tell you my one experience.

We went scuba diving off Puerto Rico in not ideal but very manageable conditions. 55 minutes later we surface in what has to be 6-7 foot seas (How they got up that fast i don't understand). Without the aid of both flotation devices (BC's in our case), and fins, I don't know we could have swam back and maneuvered back on board, even with the ladder down. My wife grabbed the ladders' bottom rung and she managed to hang on as a wave passed over the boat. As the bow fell off the crest, it lifted the transom, her (5'6"), and her dangling fins clear out of the water. Had she fallen, or had I not been able to kick clear that transom would have come down on us. My point is that the boarding ladder being both rigid and well attached was something I hadn't thought about till I saw this thread. Fact is if its rough, you won't be able to get to the boat and board without going through at least one wave. You'll need something to hang on to. I'd rather have a metal ladder than a rope one. It won't swing me under the boat.

Oh, if you're thinking sure but we had tanks to deal with etc. No we didn't. when we surfaced and swam back to the boat we took off our BC's and tanks and attached them to a line in the water. Safer getting off w/o them and then pull them in when that rough.

So moral of the story is if you do go overboard in rough conditions you will want to have some things with you. That's why you should never pee overboard at night without first putting your wetsuit, fins and PFD on
Have to admit... I simply adore using swim fins! Wear them nearly every time I swim off our boat - which is very often - with or with out mask, snorkel etc. And, of course, with fins on there are some but few currents that you can't make headway against, at least for short period of time... much longer if you are in good condition. Small boogie board is great to rest forward body portion upon with fins a' kicken. Fast too!!

But I just gotta say - regarding bold sentence above - I'd pee myself before that get-up was adorned for a midnight flush-less urine elimination!
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