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Old 01-13-2016, 10:59 PM   #101
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Marin, I'm with ya but it's too cold up there. But oh the sights and nature I am sure going to visit.

Even a nice Florida lake on a warm summer night, flat calm, no current and bath tub warm. You might not make it to the shore and you WILL be motivated to get in the boat.

They feed at night!

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Old 01-13-2016, 11:10 PM   #102
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I apologize Marin, Missed my mark.
No you didn't. Your points should be paid attention to by everybody. An awful lot of people on the water don't seem understand what it does and why.

Growing up in Hawaii, every year there seemed to be several people killed by the ocean. Very often these were servicemen who had grown up nowhere near the ocean and being in Hawaii was their first exposure to it. But a fair number were locals who should have known better.

These people were not killed by falling off boats out at sea or bitten in half by sharks. Most of them were killed right on or very close to the beach, pounded into unconsciousness and being drowned by the waves while body surfing in the shore break, smashed into the coral seabed by waves just offshore, or sucked and held under by wave backwash that pounded the air out of them.

It's just water, right? How strong can it be? That, I think, was the attitude and it nailed people every year.

The situation set up in the first post in this thread describes what seem to be very benign circumstances. Anchored, dark, cold water, a little bit choppy, and a mild current. Boaters have died in less.

The people getting smashed into the beach and coral or sucked under and held in Hawaii were mostly younger folks, teens to thirties. The people who buy the kinds of boats most of us in this forum have tend to be much older simply because it can take a fair number of years of earning to eventually afford something like this. And what happens to most people as they age? They become more susceptible to all sorts of things. A fall into 50 degree water that might momentarily stun a young person could stop the heart of an older person.

A broken wrist that might inconvenience a younger person but wouldn't stop him/her because of the strength in the other arm could prevent an older person from getting out of the water because he/she simply be too weak with one arm or hand to do it.

As a kid--- perhaps I was eight or nine-- I got caught in the backwash of the shorebreak at Makaha which at the time had a pretty steep slope to the beach. I wasn't even in the water. I was just standing there and the wave arced up, smashed down, raced up the slope, knocked me off my feet, and hauled me back down the slope so fast I didn't even know what was happening. I was completely powerless to slow my slide, stand up, or anything. I was terrified to say the least.

Would I have drowned? I don't know. Probably not. I never had a chance to find out as the submarine commander my mother was dating at the time who was totally at home in the water and was an expert surfer, ran down the slope and hauled me bodily out of the water and carried me back up the slope.

I was not scared away from the ocean by this incident, and all the years I lived there I had no fear of swimming in it or boating on it. But I never forgot that immense power that dragged me down the beach, power that no way in hell could I ever overcome either as a little kid or as an adult.

So your points about current and being aware of it and learning to work with it instead of against it is solid advice that should be heeded by anyone who has anything to do with the ocean, even our "benign" inside waters. Because when the current cranks up, they are not so benign.

The two photos below are of the same rapids in BC. The waves are standing waves--- they don't go anywhere, they just keep breaking right where they are which is why the kayakers and surfers love them. Keep in mind that this caused simply by the change in the tide. I mean, how big a deal can that be, right? It's just the tide for Christ's sake.

This happens in both directions four times a day. At slack, it's dead flat calm. For about five or ten minutes.......

I've flown over it a lot in the floatplane and seen it like this from the air. But I've never been next to it or heard it. I understand it sounds like a train going by about ten feet from your head.
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:45 AM   #103
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Popular anchorages no doubt .....
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:17 AM   #104
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Popular anchorages no doubt .....
Now, there's a place to conduct anchor hold tests!


And, as far as falling overboard with broken wrist - well - See Ya... wouldn't wanta be ya!!
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:45 AM   #105
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Before this thread gets back on track:

Marin has posted pix of one of our favorite places, the Skookuchuk rapids near Egmont BC. Well worth a trip. You can walk the 2 mile trail from Egmont to stand and watch. You can also transit the narrows at slack water, safely, and find the world's most beautiful anchorages. Beautiful mostly because the rapids scare off so many that you will almost always have the place to yourself. We have been in Sechelt Inlet several times, both in our last sailboat and in our trawler.

Those current have claimed lives over the years, most notably, about 5 yrs ago a pair of Coast Guard Aux (volunteers) on a practice run. They also claimed a tug that allowed its barge in tow to overtake it, turtling the tug. There was a UTube of that incident, taken by one of those kayakers, there for fun.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:21 PM   #106
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Those current have claimed lives over the years, most notably, about 5 yrs ago a pair of Coast Guard Aux (volunteers) on a practice run. They also claimed a tug that allowed its barge in tow to overtake it, turtling the tug.
Most of the lives lost are locals or people who at least know the risks but either through complacency or cockiness take them anyway. And while we are adrift here; what they have done to the hillsides and Narrows Inlet is sickening.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:31 PM   #107
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Hawg:
As you travel the cruise ship lanes up the coast you will note that clearcut logging has all but disappeared, with sizeable bands of timber left to hide what logging has taken place. When you get off the beaten track, you get to see logging that has fewer sight restrictions. Surpise again, when you go back to those places after as few as 5 years, they are mostly greened up again, as the replanting rules are enforced against the tree licensees. In most of the coast, you have to work very hard to prevent the forest from coming back and reclaiming a logged area. Hence the reality that most of the logging you see today from the water is second, third or even fourth growth. The only virgin stands left are so remote as to be uneconomical, a bigger factor than environmental correctness.
my $.02(CDN) of rudderless drift.
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:36 PM   #108
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Hawg:
As you travel the cruise ship lanes up the coast you will note that clearcut logging has all but disappeared...
The two photos I posted of Skookumchuck Rapids were lifted off the web. I have no idea when they were taken so have no idea if the terrain around Sechelt Inlet still looks like that. As koliver says, forests have a habit of regenerating themselves unless you pave them over.
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Old 01-19-2016, 08:53 AM   #109
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This is cheap & easy to make and stow and might be better than nothing,

http://dbwf.net/citizen/Queens_Rangers/ladder.pdf
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:06 AM   #110
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This is cheap & easy to make and stow and might be better than nothing,

http://dbwf.net/citizen/Queens_Rangers/ladder.pdf
That is a cool ladder! I have some extra rope. If time permits just might try building one. Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:35 AM   #111
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That is a cool ladder! I have some extra rope. If time permits just might try building one. Thanks!
Yes, very cool ladder! For a "two step" variant of this ladder I might try inserting a wooden dowel or an aluminum tube in between the left and right bights before making the round turns. This should prevent the sag in the rung should you want something wider than a single step ladder and still not be too bulky to store. Just an idea...
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:03 AM   #112
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Yes, very cool ladder! For a "two step" variant of this ladder I might try inserting a wooden dowel or an aluminum tube in between the left and right bights before making the round turns. This should prevent the sag in the rung should you want something wider than a single step ladder and still not be too bulky to store. Just an idea...
And a good one at that!
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:07 PM   #113
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https://youtu.be/puvekp3l9hc

Something I saw at the boat show.

S.O.S marine ladder. To me there seems to be some value in something like this. I like a side re-board option, along with a tool that gives a couple of recovery options.

cheers
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:48 PM   #114
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Something I saw at the boat show.
Based on the video, that's impressive. I'm going to show this to my wife tonight as it looks like something that would be very well worth having on board. Thanks a bunch for bringing it to our attention and posting the video link.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:05 PM   #115
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All boaring systems look useful in calm water...for rough...heck I don't have the answer either.


In rough, you shouldn't board by the stern because of the prop and then going side to the seas and wind for a midship boarding is a wild ride.....so pick your poison...


Probably the best is trying to get an dingy near the PIW, let them board that and then come aboard the primary vessel.


Sounds easy right? Heck no and I still have no clue what I would do in a real situation...might just have to be one of those "well it seemed right at the moment" moments. I guess knowing how bad it can be and having options including something like this SOS ladders is all you can hope for.


As is often said....just don't wind up in the water...because if you do...well the ending isn't always pretty.
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:24 PM   #116
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All boaring systems look useful in calm water...for rough...heck I don't have the answer either.


.
I'd have to see him do that in at least 6-8' seas to be convinced.
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:41 PM   #117
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Try using one of those rope ladders sometime, or the variations thereof. Before I wised up for good, I had one on my Whaler. Not fun for those in less than ideal shape. I deployed it once when a guy fell off a floating dock and could not pull himself up the two feet above the water. Didn't help, only a couple of guys pulling him out of the water with great difficulty did the trick.
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:59 PM   #118
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The thing I like about the device in OFB's post is that the ladder extends quite a bit below the surface of the water. If one can get one's feet onto the lower rungs of a ladder, rope or otherwise, it becomes much easier to climb, particularly if the ladder extends up the side of the boat so one can use their arms above them to pull as well.

Where so many of these boarding ladders fail, including the pivoting stainless steel ladder on the swimstep of our PNW cruiser, is that the lower rungs are not that far below the surface. So you have to lift your foot up quite high to get it on the lowest rung and in that position, particularly if one's knees are getting tired, it can be very difficult to impossible to climb.

The rope from the deck of his boat Art illustrated in an earlier post is a very smart idea because it lets one use the power of their arms to augment their legs to get up the ladder.

Doing anything in a rough sea is going to be difficult to impossible whether it's climb a ladder, be hoisted aboard in a harness, or trying to climb into a dinghy that's being tossed about all over the place.

On the other hand, while rough water can certainly make it difficult to get around on the outside of the boat, it also puts one at maximum awareness of the need to hang on. I sometimes wonder if the risk of actually going over is greater in relatively benign conditions when one's guard is not up and a stumble or loss of balance--- say carrying a tray of food or whatever up to the flying bridge-- can cause one to fall or lurch to the point of going over the side.
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Old 01-27-2016, 06:08 PM   #119
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I think the SOS ladder is easier than many rope type ladders because the wind give a bit more stability...I would have to use it to be convinced.


I would MUCH rather be slammed by my dingy in 6 foot seas than my trawler... the point is to get out of the water ASAP and be able to transfer aboard the big boat without injury from a prop or getting slammed by the big boat. Anyone that has a guaranteed way to do that, I suggest you market it as no one else seems to have the answer


If anyone doubts that statement...go to any USCG Air Station and discuss the matter with a very experienced rescue swimmer. In all likelihood, they have experience in the worst conditions and getting aboard or near a large vessel.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:11 PM   #120
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Best answer I can provide is the 6' SS ladder with broad, deep steps and fairly long, knotted 3/4" line that is at our boat's transom, always ready for action. Using hands, arms, and legs makes boarding a better deal. Easy in calm water... but, nothing is easy regarding boarding out of real rough water, especially with wet heavy cloths on. Do or die situation such as falling over can quickly become an energy producer. We often use our ladder for swimming... in warm very calm water. I built it so we can easily board after a swim.


Knotted line also serves as a fastener to hold ladder up when we leave the boat for extended days. Looped line attaches to both side cleats and is used for quick clip tow hitch line to our runabout.
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