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Old 01-12-2016, 12:25 PM   #61
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This is the scariest thread I have ever read... Now I have another thing to work out on the new boat.

TBH, given the set of circumstances laid out, I would be long gone. Ladder lives in bilge, nothing really to grab, nothing really to step on to boost up to swim platform... yadd, yadda, yadda. I guess we're never leaving the dock ever again.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:29 PM   #62
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This is the scariest thread I have ever read... Now I have another thing to work out on the new boat.

TBH, given the set of circumstances laid out, I would be long gone. Ladder lives in bilge, nothing really to grab, nothing really to step on to boost up to swim platform... yadd, yadda, yadda. I guess we're never leaving the dock ever again.
Wifey B: Well, if you're goin' to go skinny dippin' you need a way back. All it takes is a very minor little change and you'll be covered for most situations. Rope, Ladder, Alarm, Flotation Device. Many ways to address. And just care in what you do.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:33 PM   #63
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We continue to learn and evaluate and hopefully can do it effectively without fear taking hold. I have never gone out in the ocean alone, single handed. Many do. On the lake though, from the age of 13 to 30, probably 95% of my time was alone. It's not about eliminating risk as that's not something that is possible. It's about managing those risks so they are at a level we are comfortable with.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:24 PM   #64
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Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

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Old 01-12-2016, 02:10 PM   #65
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I've just never grasped not changing with the times. Perhaps it is because I've depended on technology where you have to evolve constantly. We embrace changes that are possible. I try to analyze any resistance I have to change and decide whether it really makes sense. If it's just frivolous then who cares and I think most think of peeing overboard being that way, but then the evidence points to the inherent danger and that would change my view on it. On the lake, we never wore life jackets of any type. When we first started coastal cruising we didn't find the thought of doing so pleasant. We shopped and shopped for the most comfortable inflatables and others we could find. There are now conditions in which we put them on without hesitation. We still don't like them, but we realize the importance. I understand peeing over the side of a 14' jon boat in less than three feet of water. I don't understand though how that should lead to going out on deck alone at night to pee over the side of a boat with waves and current, no one on watch, and the risk of going over.
2 things...
1. Many of us have changed with the times...what the heck does that have to do with peeing overboard? What new rules are in effect????...if anything...3 year olds want to pee outdoors...
2. Peeing overboard offshore? That is exactly where peeing overboard was probably learned. No heads within 30 miles at full speed. The amount that people on TF don't understand is just a lack of exposure to the almost limitless amount of differences in boaters, equipment, likes and dislikes, morals, drinking habits, tool boxes....

Should I go on like some who have a strong opinion yet little experience?


Despite some posts...I think more guys drown with their zippers up than dow......if they can prove it the other way...fine, I would love to see the actual stats.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:48 PM   #66
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2 things...
1. Many of us have changed with the times...what the heck does that have to do with peeing overboard? .
The times changing was in direct response to the statement about people learning to pee overboard when young and on boats with no head. I think all the boats on here do have heads.

I have no idea about zippers up or down or percentage of drownings due to peeing. Regardless, I know that to go to the original scenario which involved going on deck at night alone to pee overboard and subsequently falling overboard, it seems to me an unnecessary risk. I've still not heard any good reason for it. If I'm missing that, I apologize, but peeing over the side or off the swim step has just never crossed my mind except when discussed here.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:55 PM   #67
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Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

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We had an emergency type ladder on our sailboat. What a PIA! It was like climbing a rope ladder, as you try to climb up on it, it wants to go horizontal. Maybe a teenager yes. Against a solid surface is it was a little easier but it would not be my first choice.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|7504|2290202|2290206&id=1343784

Our swim platform is 8-10 inches off the water. Lena and I can pull ourselves up on to it easily. We do have a ladder that folds underneath. Guests like it.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:56 PM   #68
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Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

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What, and end a silly argument? I have one of those. I often festoon lifelines from my cleats bow to stern as well when I'm at anchor. Handy for swimmers and kayakers during the day, and apparently urinating with impunity at night.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:56 PM   #69
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Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

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I would say two things about most of those. First, they require someone to let them down or set them up. That's why they haven't been mentioned in this discussion. This was man overboard and no one on deck aware scenario. Second, I think those that are regular ladders with sturdy steps could be useful. I had boat ladders like them long ago on the lake. Those that are rope and webbing and other things, many would find very difficult to climb, especially when already exhausted.

Seems to me the ideal solution is some form of ladder that is accessible from the water, easy to get in position and easy to climb. That still may not help the person in this situation. Added to that some type rope they could grab to get to that ladder might help.

Prevention is still the best plan.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:01 PM   #70
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You hang the ladder from the gunwhale prior to nocturnal activities. I hang mine when at anchor, alone or not.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:02 PM   #71
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Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale
Sure for some events, deployable devices like them in the link have value

But this subject is not a one piece of gear fix issue. I have many more tools in the tool box for various fixes

My primary go to is my tender behind or beside my boat. Yes I can board from the water in the middle of the night with broken ribs and the wind knocked out of me

I also carry several ladders for different fixes. Some easy to use, carry around deploy. I also have a chain, wood boarding ladder I deploy when anchored.

Dockside I have used extention ladders to assist folkout onto a dock.

I have also ggotten into the cold water to assist someone needing out of the water.

This is not a one fix fix. Be safe and aware.

Even a whistle can bring assistance to you for help just to get someone out of the water.

Just some thoughts.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:32 PM   #72
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We do have a ladder that folds underneath. Guests like it.
I like that arrangement, Larry. Do you think something like that would work with a slat-style teak swimstep like the ones used on Grand Banks? I would be concerned about strength, and drilling holes through the teak slats is a good way to weaken them.

For example I secured our Weaver Snap Davits to our swim step with upper and lower braces that are clamped to each other across the width (fore and aft, not side to side) of the swimstep through the gaps between the slats; no holes were drilled through the swim-step itself.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:18 PM   #73
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most teak platforms could hold a ladder...I tossed my platform because it was so bad...but the ladder was still attached and could handle over 200 pounds out of the water with no damage.


if platform suspect, teak, aluminum, stainless straps on top can be thru-bolted as backing plates.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:26 PM   #74
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The times changing was in direct response to the statement about people learning to pee overboard when young and on boats with no head. I think all the boats on here do have heads.

I have no idea about zippers up or down or percentage of drownings due to peeing. Regardless, I know that to go to the original scenario which involved going on deck at night alone to pee overboard and subsequently falling overboard, it seems to me an unnecessary risk. I've still not heard any good reason for it. If I'm missing that, I apologize, but peeing over the side or off the swim step has just never crossed my mind except when discussed here.
My point was they are comfy and may enjoy doing it ...even though their big boats are now big enough to have heads.

All day offshore on my assistance towboat that didn't have a head brought up the issue...especially when pounding through a sea....so yes side decks and scuppers were fair game. Fortunately Shamrocks are so wet of a boat that I could have peed ion the pilothouse roof and the spray would have doused it in seconds....

No good reason to do it...and.... unless rough, no reason not to if you and the boat are in harmony.

Many here must not have had to work in hazardous situations if peeing overboard on a large boat is an issue...john boats, dingys and canoes are a different story.


I have an electric winch on my mast so others of lesser stature could lower the cable and hook to me if getting on the swim platform or up on deck was not possible.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:49 PM   #75
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most teak platforms could hold a ladder...I tossed my platform because it was so bad...but the ladder was still attached and could handle over 200 pounds out of the water with no damage.

Good to know, thanks much.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:32 PM   #76
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Good to know, thanks much.

I installed mine by drilling the teak, holds fine.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:53 PM   #77
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The Coot's stern gate becomes a ladder when deployed, but that's rare.



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Old 01-12-2016, 06:01 PM   #78
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In my strong opinion, you need a permanent, not an "emergency" ladder you can deploy from the water.
People somehow tend to imagine these type of incidents happening in benign seas and weather, when almost by definition they do not. "Oh yeah, I can kip my self up right on to that swim platform.. no problem.."
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:51 PM   #79
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Pee over the side? At night? When I have two working heads? You gotta be sh!tting me. (OK, that was a bad pun!). IMHO it's not worth the risk. That's why they put pee platforms, err, I mean swim platforms on boats.


Seriously, I can't imagine why I would pee over the side, especially at night. That being said, if I fell overboard I do have a swim ladder that's beneath the swim platform and it's easy to pull it out when you're in the water.


As far as being overboard in cold water, a few years back I got some lines caught in both props. I spent 35 minutes beneath the boat, at night, in October, in 53* water with a Maglite between my legs and a steak knife in my teeth. Oh, and did I mention I had no mask or wet suit.


After I got the lines clear I was able to reboard the boat, fire up the engines and cruise back home. No hypothermia, no more than normal confused brain, etc.


An extra layer of padding (OK, it's fat!) really helps.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:02 PM   #80
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...Do you think something like that would work with a slat-style teak swimstep like the ones used on Grand Banks? I would be concerned about strength, and drilling holes through the teak slats is a good way to weaken them.

For example I secured our Weaver Snap Davits to our swim step with upper and lower braces that are clamped to each other across the width (fore and aft, not side to side) of the swimstep through the gaps between the slats; no holes were drilled through the swim-step itself.
Our platform is solid so the spacing, strength/loading wasn't critical. Center to center the ladder width is 14" with the deck backing plate (2) diameter is 2.75" by 3.0". How's your spacing?
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