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Old 11-07-2013, 10:09 AM   #21
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Hi Steve,

The metal bowl is there to protect the plastic reservoir and is required by safety regulations. Not sure just how it protects the reservoir; from fire, from mechanical damage, etc. ?
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #22
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I've always thought that the metal shield was a "silly" requirement. There are a lot more items that I would like to see protected in the ER other than a metal shield on the bottom of a Racor. We once (in Boy Scouts) learned that we could boil water in a paper bag held over an open flame. The bag never burned as the temperature it saw never exceeded 212F. I wonder how the Racor (without the shield) would stand up to a 2 &1/2 minute test ?
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:43 AM   #23
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We had an insurance audit and were required to added the metal bowels to being up to ABYC recommendations. I personal believe if there was an ER fire they would do very little. More and more insurance and surveyors are according to ABYC, so its better to meet the recommendations. Besides they are not expensive and easy to install.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:44 AM   #24
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I work with codes and standards everyday...
Do what I do before opening my mouth.....Do a sanity check....When you realize that almost nobody is in compliance it probably is not a requirement....or a best a new requirement and those are almost never retroactive.
I must admit you had me thinking...Why does my boat not comply, Why doesn't about half my friends boats up and down the dock comply? I was think how much I could make manufacturing and selling those ss shields. Parker Racor sells them for about $70.. What a rip off.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:06 AM   #25
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buy a couple stainless mixing bowls and drill holes in them...then get wild and see if you can find metal stopcock drains at a big box store. Total cost should be under $25.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:58 AM   #26
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I wonder how the Racor (without the shield) would stand up to a 2 &1/2 minute test ?
I think it would be academic because by that time there wouldn't be much left of the boat anyway.

Consider that a fire burning beneath the bowl for that long would likely have spread enough to burn the whole boat down in the next 2.5 minutes anyway.

As boats actually become safer as a result of better materials and manufacturing techiques and generally much higher quality components, the insurance underwriters and the toyboat surveyors are having to struggle to find conditions and components that might in some remote circumstance contribute to a loss.

There are two conditions that are generally found to be the source of an engine room fire, an electrical problem or a fuel spray that originates at a high pressure connection.

Electrical issues can be dealt with by enclosing all terminals and connections. There isn't a toy boat built that follows that practice. The fuel spray issue is controlled by using double-wall fuel lines with a leak-off alarm to warn of a fuel leak. I have only seen that configuration installed on very large yachts with new large engines, large commercial vessels, and retrofitted to some older commercial vessels operating in international service as required by IMO regulations.

Neither of those means to protect a boat from fire will ever see daylight in an ABYC or insurance company document. Though they are the two major causes of fires, it is easier to demand an owner spend $500 as it makes the surveyor look like he knows something and it makes the insurance company look like they are doing something to reduce losses. It is BS, pure smoke and mirrors.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:31 PM   #27
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Electrical issues can be dealt with by enclosing all terminals and connections......The fuel spray issue is controlled by using double-wall fuel lines with a leak-off alarm to warn of a fuel leak.

Neither of those means to protect a boat from fire will ever see daylight in an ABYC or insurance company document.

Though they are the two major causes of fires, it is easier to demand an owner spend $500 as it makes the surveyor look like he knows something and it makes the insurance company look like they are doing something to reduce losses.

It is BS, pure smoke and mirrors.
Sorry for the "edit", Rick...but I just wanted to drive the message home.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:42 PM   #28
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The Racor site does not list the components to make a non-compliant filter set meet the fire regs so are we expected to spend $1200 for a pair of compliant filters? I think that won't happen on my boat.
Or just scrap the Racors and join the 21st century and go with spin ons.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:55 PM   #29
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Electrical issues can be dealt with by enclosing all terminals and connections. There isn't a toy boat built that follows that practice. .
This may well apply to the Nordhavn that just burned in England as it seems pilot house rather than ER related. That will be an interesting forensic study.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:53 PM   #30
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This may well apply to the Nordhavn that just burned in England as it seems pilot house rather than ER related.
Hard to tell but this photo makes it look like flames are visible on the aft deck area while none are evident in the wheelhouse.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:24 PM   #31
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I know that based on all the engine room fires I have seen on small GRP vessels...unless the fuel filter is on the engine itself...the last thing that I'm worried about is whether my Racor has a heat shield around it.... unless by majic the fire started right under the Racor.
Exactly right !!! and on my last boat I was dinked by the surveyor at time of sale for not having the shields on the Racors that were more than ten feet from the engines.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:25 PM   #32
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I think you may be right Rick and if I recall, on the 76 Nordy. The lazerette houses the banks, inverters etc.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:46 PM   #33
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Exactly right !!! and on my last boat I was dinked by the surveyor at time of sale for not having the shields on the Racors that were more than ten feet from the engines.
There aren't many in the boating business with a breadth or expertise's....and it shows...

It's easy to profess the merits and follow published guidelines by the USCG/ABYC ...but after running hundreds of vessels over tens of thousands of miles, many of them marginally kept commercial boats under horrific conditions, reviewing thousands of Search and Rescue cases as to what ACTUALLY cause the distress and attending several world renown aviation accident investigation schools...you get a decent appreciation of what's REALLY important and what's not.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:09 PM   #34
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I think you may be right Rick and if I recall, on the 76 Nordy. The lazerette houses the banks, inverters etc.
You may be correct. The plethora of batteries and double inverters are common on the smaller Nordhavns, but the 76 is all electric with normally two gensets. The ER is auto fire extinguishing, the laz I'm not sure on the 76. The laz does house the diesel heat most likely.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:55 AM   #35
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2.5 minutes is all it takes to get everyone off...
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:05 AM   #36
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Thanks, all.



Now I know why, but then why not on fuel filters on the engine?

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Old 11-08-2013, 05:58 AM   #37
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2.5 minutes is all it takes to get everyone off...
After the discovery phase, the denial phase, the panic phase , and the decision phase there usually isn't much boat left to get off of.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:00 AM   #38
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2.5 minutes is all it takes to get everyone off...
And with the cheapo non Fire Retarding resin used on most boats , Abandon Ship is the only option to fire!
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:08 AM   #39
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There aren't many in the boating business with a breadth or expertise's....and it shows...


The surveyor accrediting business is a parasite that bleeds owners while generally serving no one other than their membership, insurance companies, and banks.

Let them stick to checking serial numbers and inventorying fittings. In more and more cases they are totally incompetent and lacking what most industry professionals would define as a fundamental grounding in the art and science of marine maintenance and practice.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:03 AM   #40
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Looking at pictures of filters and systems I wonder if the yards of fuel hoses aren't just as vulnerable to the fire hazzard, and how would they fare in the 2.5 minute test?
Maybe I shouldn't wonder too much the gubmint could have us replacing them all with SS tubing?!
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