Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-21-2014, 04:01 PM   #141
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post

The owners rep stated that part of the reason they selected NM was they were willing to fully customize the boat to the owners requirements. So maybe criticism of the boats design and appearance shouldn't all be laid at the feet of NM. Would be interesting to know more about the owner.
!"
I think ultimately the blame is appropriately directed at NM regardless of anything else. However, I do believe the entire project merits question. You want to build longer, taller, lighter, no wider. You want to put portholes almost at the water line. No telling all the other things. Builders needing business don't know how to say no. This is the third US builder I can name without even thinking who had serious problems trying to build something outside their normal. Both of the other two ended up in the courts.

It's always "we want this.....but let's do this.....oh and this......lets make this change.....just a little more......oh and this can't hurt." Learning along the way is a dangerous way to operate. But then the boat changed I'm sure in small bits and pieces and maybe no one realized how they were adding up.

And a reminder. We don't know what caused this yet. The Coast Guard does have an Incident Management Team investigating.
__________________
Advertisement

BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 06:11 PM   #142
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
And a reminder. We don't know what caused this yet. The Coast Guard does have an Incident Management Team investigating.
Well. . . I will be watching for that report. . . . .

Because I've never read USCG Maritine Incident Investigation Report where it stated. . . ."Ultimately the vessel foundered due to the popular opinion that it was aesthetically ugly!! LOL

(My post was concerning the negative opinion of many, that the vessel was unattractive. Note the quote. . ."Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Had nothing to do with the seaworthiness, safety or cause of the accident!!)
__________________

__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 06:13 PM   #143
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
Well. . . I will be watching for that report. . . . .

Because I've never read USCG Maritine Incident Investigation Report where it stated. . . ."Ultimately the vessel foundered due to the popular opinion that it was aesthetically ugly!! LOL

(My post was concerning the negative opinion of many, that the vessel was unattractive. Note the quote. . ."Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Had nothing to do with the seaworthiness, safety or cause of the accident!!)
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 06:16 PM   #144
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
Well. . . I will be watching for that report. . . . .

Because I've never read USCG Maritine Incident Investigation Report where it stated. . . ."Ultimately the vessel foundered due to the popular opinion that it was aesthetically ugly!! LOL

(My post was concerning the negative opinion of many, that the vessel was unattractive. Note the quote. . ."Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Had nothing to do with the seaworthiness, safety or cause of the accident!!)
Wifey B: Some boats are so ugly they're cute. This wasn't one of them either. They're generally small boats. I wouldn't be bothered by ugly if functional. Sometimes ugly even adds to function which was like what they were maybe trying to do here. More space, more space up top...oops got carried away. Like someone saying, but the galley and dining view is so much nicer without a lower helm. Well, so we'll stand in the galley, look out, and through our extraordinary powers drive the boat. I mean really. It didn't look so tall upside down in the water.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 08:00 PM   #145
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
I take it from your posts BB that you sold the mythical NM stock short? Frankly, I'm puzzled by your seeming enthusiasm over this tragedy. But I'm sure it's just me and my smattering knowledge of the blood, sweat and tears Bud and group have put into NM for the past decade or more.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 08:38 PM   #146
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
I take it from your posts BB that you sold the mythical NM stock short? Frankly, I'm puzzled by your seeming enthusiasm over this tragedy. But I'm sure it's just me and my smattering knowledge of the blood, sweat and tears Bud and group have put into NM for the past decade or more.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 08:51 PM   #147
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
I think in the end we will find out that one of the lateral supports gave way. The fact that the boat was so top heavy probably did not help and the tanks may have been empty which may represent a fair amount of ballast. I can see no way the people launching the boat will not receive scrutiny regarding negligence for improper bracing or inadequate inspection and maintenance of the equipment used to launch. Now its all guesses and its time to wait to see what the CG has to say.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 09:06 PM   #148
Senior Member
 
ronlord's Avatar
 
City: Grand Island NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Missy
Vessel Model: Mainship 350
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 163
Boat looks top heavy, but I think it will come down to the method of launch, not the boat that caused it to capsize. If they had used a crane with slings we would not be discussing this today. Dollies were too small, one of the stern supports gave way while the bow was still out of the the water, and away she went.
ronlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 09:49 PM   #149
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
My guess is that the transport trailer failed, resulting in the boat leaning and then rolling over well before being fully in the water.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:57 AM   #150
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
I take it from your posts BB that you sold the mythical NM stock short? Frankly, I'm puzzled by your seeming enthusiasm over this tragedy. But I'm sure it's just me and my smattering knowledge of the blood, sweat and tears Bud and group have put into NM for the past decade or more.
You may take it I had no interest in buying any or all of their stock or having anything to do with the company nor do I now. But that really has nothing to do with my feelings here. I take no pleasure in the demise of Northern. But my sympathies don't lie with the owners, rather I feel horrible for all the others hurt as a result of things that have happened. I feel pain for the employees, the vendors and the multiple buyers with boats in production including the buyer of the boat that sank. When they have all been made whole then I'll feel differently.

Let's be clear, the management and ownership of the company is at fault here. Regardless of why the boat rolled and sank, they're the ones who had the responsibility to not let that happen. They are the ones who closed the doors. And you say a horrible accident led to that? Not within one day. The accident shouldn't have caused such. It should have been fully insured. And it shouldn't have happened. Boat tilts, you stop and continue? They should have had adequate protection and working capital. Management and ownership has responsibilities. They're the ones in control. A lot of others have been very hurt by this. I don't know the owners. I know they've been at it a long time. I feel on a personal basis for anyone who has encountered problems regardless of whether of their own causing. But Northern Marine hasn't been successful for many years. There obviously was some great imperative on their part to launch this boat right then, regardless. Doesn't really matter whether it's the dollies or the boat or both at fault.

So the greatest parts of my sympathy go to the little guys, the ones who did nothing wrong. The ones working just to support their family. The ones trusting the build of their boats to Northern. The ones who are highly unlikely to recover their money. Ownership returns the money to all those who have made payments and don't have boats to show for it, then I'll get on my knees and praise them for their sweat, tears, and honor.

It will be a long time sorting through all the specifics.

And for the record, I take generally this same stance every time a company closes in a manner like this. I feel deeply for those who lose so much through no fault of their own.

As to the company, just an entity, not a human. Well, although another legal entity, this is just a repeat of history. Doors close. Many hurt. Of course last time the current owners were able to buy the assets and restart the company.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 05:44 AM   #151
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
My guess is that the transport trailer failed, resulting in the boat leaning and then rolling over well before being fully in the water.
On one hand this seems a very reasonable explanation. But wouldn't the boat have been more high and dry if it toppled over before being fully in the water? And one guy who was on the boat said they were operating the thrusters.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 08:04 AM   #152
Senior Member
 
City: Nokomis
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 181
launch video posted here. Begins at about 2:20:

harbor950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 08:30 AM   #153
Senior Member
 
slowandsteady's Avatar
 
City: North Kingstown, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 III
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 151
I just watched the last video posted by harbor950 and found myself screaming "Stop! Stop! Stop!" Someone will be having recurring nightmares for not saying that while it was being lowered down the ramp.
slowandsteady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 08:38 AM   #154
Guru
 
roguewave's Avatar
 
City: Hill Country TX/S.Portland Maine
Country: Texas
Vessel Name: Southern Cross III
Vessel Model: 1988 Defever 41
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 610
I also fell in love with this fella

Northern Marine 58 Limit Seiner N58 Launch F/V Optimus | fisherynation.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
After reading all this, I figured I'd look'em up. And I must say I LOVE their 58' F/V. Attachment 30049
__________________
..."some gave all, KIA"...
roguewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 08:41 AM   #155
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by harbor950 View Post
launch video posted here. Begins at about 2:20:




Watching that was painful.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 09:12 AM   #156
Member
 
rackeu's Avatar
 
City: Savannah
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Mariner 38
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 14
__________________
Al & Lynn
rackeu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 10:09 AM   #157
Guru
 
City: NC
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 636
We were at the Anacortes Trawler Fest, and the night this happened, we were at dinner. We had been eating dinner with a group of people for the last couple of nights and one of the people in the group is in the boat business.

He was late to dinner Saturday night because he was watching a big yacht being put into the water. I would have asked him some questions but he was not near me but I heard he was watching the launch of a boat that was around 100 feet long. We finished dinner and he went back to watch the rest of the launch. It appears that while we were walking back to our hotel the boat was put in the water and rolled. We were only a few blocks from where this happened.

We really feel sorry for the people involved. To watch your hard work and dreams roll over like that is just awful.

Later,
Dan
dannc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 10:18 AM   #158
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
The new video is interesting. look at the port stern as the boat goes into the water... at first I thought they had started a genset, but I am not sure that is what I see. Look at all the bubbles at the waterline near the low windows.. one of the windows left open?... nobody is that remiss are they?
Still a sad sight.. the worker that puts his hands on his head says it all
HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 10:42 AM   #159
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
The new video is interesting. look at the port stern as the boat goes into the water... at first I thought they had started a genset, but I am not sure that is what I see. Look at all the bubbles at the waterline near the low windows.. one of the windows left open?... nobody is that remiss are they?
Still a sad sight.. the worker that puts his hands on his head says it all
HOLLYWOOD
Worse than a sad sight as one person was very close to losing their life.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:07 AM   #160
Newbie
 
City: Florida
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3
Thanks for posting the video, quite hard to watch. I know some of the guys that worked on this and its quite a heart breaker for everyone involved.

Like BandB, I was trying to find out who did the engineering and NA and found the old captains blog archives that were deleted. If anyone is interested looks like he had quite a hand in every aspect of the design and engineering.

Complete Collection:
Expedition Yacht Building | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Expedition Yacht Blood Baron Renderings | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Project Blood Baron with Northern Marine | The Yacht Captain's Blog

Custom or Custom? | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Over a thousand changes… | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Blood Baron in print! | The Yacht Captain's Blog

"applying every engineering and design wish is an very much a challenge."

"Northern Marine has my vote for a new build at this point because they are open to my changes to the superstructure."

"From the styling and actual structure to the smallest engineering detail I have almost complete control of this build"

All quotes from the captain about the build. It looked like he was really enjoying designing that boat? Does anyone know if the over-engineering line from his open letter could have been a factor in him being let go? Sounds like he lifted the curtain a bit on an internal struggle with the build.

I think BandB hit the nail on the head with what he stated about overambitious owner's wanting more and more and the captain who should've been telling them no being part of the problem. It will be interesting to see the stability study by the coast guard and if over engineering the bridge deck played a role in the capsizing.

-Jacht Junky
__________________

JachtJunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012