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Old 05-19-2014, 04:48 PM   #41
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Well, I think that may be the problem, no naval architect involved, or I certainly haven't heard of one. .
This article from 5/13/14 associates Ariel Design with a number of Northern Marine builds as well as major yachts with other builders.

Adriel Design — Luxury Yacht Charter & Superyacht News

"Northern Marine is currently finishing the preparations for the eagerly awaited launch of their all-new 90-foot motor yacht ‘Bäden’, previously known as ‘Blood Baron’ and hull number 8501. Modern and sophisticated superyacht ‘Bäden’ is a beautiful and robust explorer, in-house designed collaborating with Adriel Design and her Captain Aaron Pufal."
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:53 PM   #42
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Perhaps. Or it may have been, as Tad suggested, a malfunction of the launch equipment...
If I had to guess (and I am) this would be it. Look at the picture from the other thread in post 6.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...tml#post235024
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:54 PM   #43
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This article from 5/13/14 associates Ariel Design with a number of Northern Marine builds as well as major yachts with other builders.

Adriel Design — Luxury Yacht Charter & Superyacht News

"Northern Marine is currently finishing the preparations for the eagerly awaited launch of their all-new 90-foot motor yacht ‘Bäden’, previously known as ‘Blood Baron’ and hull number 8501. Modern and sophisticated superyacht ‘Bäden’ is a beautiful and robust explorer, in-house designed collaborating with Adriel Design and her Captain Aaron Pufal."
Odd how in finding all their work I can't find the word Naval Architect used once. So do they just do aesthetics? I don't know, but I bet they don't want to be associated with this one now.
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:56 PM   #44
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I think that's an 80 and I agree, thats what it looks most like as a starting point.
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:59 PM   #45
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Incredible!!! They said in the video that they saw it was listing, checked it out, they continued, and it still flipped? I wonder what they checked.
That's the insanity of it. And the flat tires that are so obvious. But that statement Wes made for the reporter will absolutely come to haunt them. Apparently he didn't get the memo from the lawyers saying "No Comment."

Oh it's tilting more than normal. No worry, it won't fall over. Even if we were warned months ago. We're fine. Let it go boys......oops....holy crap
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:02 PM   #46
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I always wonder if boats that tall are more stable upside down.
Talk about being prescient!! Next post and it was laid over!!!

Way more boat above the w/l than below, so it looks. If lots of weight on the bow dolly as aft was already floading, then even worse for stability.

Someone needed to be ballasting as it was gaining flotation.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:03 PM   #47
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If I had to guess (and I am) this would be it. Look at the picture from the other thread in post 6.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...tml#post235024
Yes, from that photo it looks like it is tipping before it is properly in the water.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:05 PM   #48
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We were in Westport, WA before the launch of a big guy. Two dollies (48 tires), a boat ramp and a loader using a crane as an additional break. Pretty old school with a big wow factor. Lena's standing by the front dolly.
That's a Westport 130. Largest they build in Westport as they build the 164 in Port Angeles.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:05 PM   #49
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Sorry for the slight mess caused but when folks start quoting photos from competing threads about the same subject it's time to merge them into one...

We now return you to the carnage
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:15 PM   #50
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Odd how in finding all their work I can't find the word Naval Architect used once. So do they just do aesthetics? I don't know, but I bet they don't want to be associated with this one now.
"As Northern Marine’s chief naval architect, Mark Allred manages the company’s design and engineering departments. Allred has six years of experience in the marine industry, most recently at Marquis Yachts in Wisconsin. He is a graduate of the University of New Orleans."
--------------------------------------------------------------

They used to haul the big boys, some well over 100' in length, from their plant through town on "R" Avenue to the Dakota Creek Ship Yard for launching, a distance of several miles. But I suppose that was a greater distance, required the temporary removal of some utilities and closing streets. Probably cost a lot more money.

No matter the boat, you tip the hull over while it's still being supported by the trailer in shallow water. . . it's going to end badly.

Maybe they'll rethink their launching options now??
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:40 PM   #51
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Just the way they moved it around the yard at the end of this promo gives me shivers.



Got to be a crushing blow to them.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:44 PM   #52
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What I don't understand is that even if it tipped, and tipped a lot, shouldn't a sea-going vessel right itself? Interesting that this is hull #1 of this model. My money is on massive engineering (or lack thereof) blunder.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:52 PM   #53
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I think much has to do with launching it with the bow still substantially supported by the dolly. And the bow dolly gives no stability. So stern goes in and starts to float, bow still held high by dolly, with no stability added. Not good.

Did they launch it stern first or side first? not sure of the details.

Probably could have been controlled by ballasting. Engineer should have been on site managing. That tall boat with empty tanks should have been a red flag for the engineer. Especially with a single point lift under the bow still in effect.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:53 PM   #54
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In one article, a witnesss stated that as it listed on the hard, it was balanced on little more than a stabilizer before it went over. There are a number of things that could have happened and we are just speculating with little information.
There were early disagreements regarding the ballast and the possibility that the boat was launched with minimal ballast to be brought up later to spec.
There probably will be little reliable information as the lawyers caution everyone to quit talking.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:09 PM   #55
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I think much has to do with launching it with the bow still substantially supported by the dolly. And the bow dolly gives no stability. So stern goes in and starts to float, bow still held high by dolly, with no stability added. Not good.

Did they launch it stern first or side first? not sure of the details.
Stern first, as it would appear from the photo in post #32, which also tends to support your theory.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:11 PM   #56
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"As Northern Marine’s chief naval architect, Mark Allred manages the company’s design and engineering departments. Allred has six years of experience in the marine industry, most recently at Marquis Yachts in Wisconsin. He is a graduate of the University of New Orleans."
--------------------------------------------------------------

They used to haul the big boys, some well over 100' in length, from their plant through town on "R" Avenue to the Dakota Creek Ship Yard for launching, a distance of several miles. But I suppose that was a greater distance, required the temporary removal of some utilities and closing streets. Probably cost a lot more money.

No matter the boat, you tip the hull over while it's still being supported by the trailer in shallow water. . . it's going to end badly.

Maybe they'll rethink their launching options now??
Well, some boats maybe, but not all.

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What I don't understand is that even if it tipped, and tipped a lot, shouldn't a sea-going vessel right itself? Interesting that this is hull #1 of this model. My money is on massive engineering (or lack thereof) blunder.
Some of these towering boats just seem way too top heavy to be considered seaworthy. Imagine them in a heavy seas with a gale on the beam. I would think they would go over pretty easily then as well. Makes you wonder about some of the more recognized designs out there.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:29 PM   #57
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Beginning of the end:
That is exactly how it was leaning during transit down the road.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:33 PM   #58
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Some of these towering boats just seem way too top heavy to be considered seaworthy. Imagine them in a heavy seas with a gale on the beam. I would think they would go over pretty easily then as well.
No kidding. Me-thinks naval architects shouldn't design boats to reflect the purchasers ego rather than the physics at play. I'd feel much safer aboard this Elling E4 which is about as opposite on the stability equation as you can get;

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Old 05-19-2014, 07:38 PM   #59
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You know guys we're making allot of assumptions and some flat out accusations about this boat, when we know absolutely nothing about the design except that it looks to us to have allot more volume up top than below.

We need to remember that this company has a proven track record of successful expedition style boats, if not this exact model.

A boats stability is based on it free floating, not partly supported by its launching apparatus. I believe that this unfortunate incident had everything to do with the launch equipment and procedures and nothing to do with the stability the boat would have had if it would have had the opportunity to actually float.
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:52 PM   #60
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You know guys we're making allot of assumptions and some flat out accusations about this boat, when we know absolutely nothing about the design except that it looks to us to have allot more volume up top than below.

We need to remember that this company has a proven track record of successful expedition style boats, if not this exact model.

A boats stability is based on it free floating, not partly supported by its launching apparatus. I believe that this unfortunate incident had everything to do with the launch equipment and procedures and nothing to do with the stability the boat would have had if it would have had the opportunity to actually float.
Didn't they originally start as a commercial boat builder??? Then guys like Bruce Kessler went to them for recreational versions?

You know the guy who has more sea miles than 3/4 of TF put together????
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