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Old 05-24-2014, 11:15 AM   #201
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Laz hatch?


Via iPhone.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:16 AM   #202
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Say that to the buyer. Or the buyer of the others not completed.
my comment had nothing to do with the boat
HOLLYWOOD

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Old 05-24-2014, 03:35 PM   #203
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oh good god... don't be such a sap..

your more reflective than the boat is on the water..

it's just a damn boat with issues.. move on

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Old 05-24-2014, 04:30 PM   #204
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I like these windows even better!!! And this boat most likely passed USCG inspection...
Most likely did. Or glass bottom boats like Silver Springs. Odd though that those windows are located differently than the norm on Northern Boats. Just glad there was one for the guy to get out.
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Old 05-24-2014, 05:39 PM   #205
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The boat is now on land. Was moved to the barge dock just north of Anacortes marina by barge and crane combination and then hoisted to land. What the future holds for it nobody knows. Fidalgo marina back to normal. A lot of lawyers and court likely for many. There were four cases against One World (owner of Northern) in Superior Court before this. Not to be overlooked, this isn't the only boat in construction and not completed. One hasn't been worked on since last August supposedly.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:14 PM   #206
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Since the vessel can't stay upright without external assistance, this is now officially in von Hindenberg/Titanic/Tacoma Narrows fiasco land. Speculation on faulty launch technique, open ER doors, etc. don't mean much if the thing can't stay upright after launch with presumably all doors closed.

The question for me is how does one spend that many years and $ building a boat without anyone of the scores of people involved figuring out that it isn't a boat at all, just a very luxurious break water in the making? Clearly she's under ballasted, but how does that happen? Most of the ballast is fixed in the form of engines, batteries and presumably lead so how do you get so far off the calculations that she can't stay upright in a mill pond? I feel for all the people involved, but this should be studied as an example of just how effed up a project can get without anybody noticing until the Holy Sheet moment.

If I didn't know better, I'd say it had to be a government project.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:23 PM   #207
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Since everyone is in wild speculation mode here is my two cents: This has turned into a investigation and as such I am sure that no one wants to take any risks with changing the dynamics of the boat until the review is complete, hence the barge and crane move. Certainly if the experts need assistance any one of the many armchair naval architect's that have comment thus far will be contacted for consultation.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:30 PM   #208
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Since everyone is in wild speculation mode here is my two cents: This has turned into a investigation and as such I am sure that no one wants to take any risks with changing the dynamics of the boat until the review is complete, hence the barge and crane move. Certainly if the experts need assistance any one of the many armchair naval architect's that have comment thus far will be contacted for consultation.
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The speculation continues...

I have a friend who works nearby in Anacortes in the boat business. Very close by.

He was there but is not part of the northern team. He was just there, it was a big deal in the small boat community.

He said that boat will never float.

He said yesterday they tried to release the straps and the boat tried to turn turtle again.
One does not need to be a naval architect, armchair or otherwise, to conclude that since the vessel began to roll over when the slings holding her upright were lowered that there is a bit of a stability problem.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:41 PM   #209
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Stuff happens:

And yes, SNCF is 100% French government owned company.



The French train operator SNCF has discovered that 2,000 new trains it ordered at a cost of 15bn euros ($20.5bn; 12.1bn) are too wide for many regional platforms.

The BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris says that it is an embarrassing blunder that has so far cost the rail operator over 50m euros ($68.4m; 40.6m).



Construction work has already started to reconfigure station platforms.

The work will allow new trains room to pass through. But officials say that there are still 1,000 platforms to be adjusted.


The error seems to have happened because the national rail operator RFF gave the wrong dimensions to train company SNCF.

Our correspondent says that they measured platforms built less than 30 years ago, overlooking the fact that many of France's regional platforms were built more than 50 years ago when trains were a little slimmer.

The platform edges are too close to the tracks in some stations which means the trains cannot get in, officials say.

BBC News - French red faces over trains that are 'too wide'
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:46 PM   #210
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Now that's funny!
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:46 PM   #211
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The details we have no idea. Were there warning signs? It would appear so. Were there complicating factors? We don't know.

However, it's not uncommon at all for manufacturers who are experiencing financial problems to take short cuts or rush things. It happens. When it's a tshirt manufacturer you just see poorly made shirts. When it's a Chinese pet treats manufacturer, it leads to dead cats and dogs. When it's a boat builder, this it the kind of thing that happens. There was obviously pressure to get that boat launched.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:17 PM   #212
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Stuff happens:

And yes, SNCF is 100% French government owned company.



The French train operator SNCF has discovered that 2,000 new trains it ordered at a cost of 15bn euros ($20.5bn; 12.1bn) are too wide for many regional platforms.

The BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris says that it is an embarrassing blunder that has so far cost the rail operator over 50m euros ($68.4m; 40.6m).



Construction work has already started to reconfigure station platforms.

The work will allow new trains room to pass through. But officials say that there are still 1,000 platforms to be adjusted.


The error seems to have happened because the national rail operator RFF gave the wrong dimensions to train company SNCF.

Our correspondent says that they measured platforms built less than 30 years ago, overlooking the fact that many of France's regional platforms were built more than 50 years ago when trains were a little slimmer.

The platform edges are too close to the tracks in some stations which means the trains cannot get in, officials say.

BBC News - French red faces over trains that are 'too wide'
Don't really see what the problem is. Just get up a good head of steam, tell everybody to stand back and let 'er rip. Problem solved.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:25 PM   #213
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Don't really see what the problem is. Just get up a good head of steam, tell everybody to stand back and let 'er rip. Problem solved.
Actually just make one even slightly wider than these. Make it sturdy and out of steel. Drive it through as many times as required. Then you'll have space for the others....lol.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:18 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Since the vessel can't stay upright without external assistance, this is now officially in von Hindenberg/Titanic/Tacoma Narrows fiasco land. Speculation on faulty launch technique, open ER doors, etc. don't mean much if the thing can't stay upright after launch with presumably all doors closed.

The question for me is how does one spend that many years and $ building a boat without anyone of the scores of people involved figuring out that it isn't a boat at all, just a very luxurious break water in the making? Clearly she's under ballasted, but how does that happen? Most of the ballast is fixed in the form of engines, batteries and presumably lead so how do you get so far off the calculations that she can't stay upright in a mill pond? I feel for all the people involved, but this should be studied as an example of just how effed up a project can get without anybody noticing until the Holy Sheet moment.

If I didn't know better, I'd say it had to be a government project.
The USCG decided to lead the pack and turned many of it's massive projects over to civilian corporations due to the abysmal failure rate by the government...guess what????..the civilian defense contractors have been just as bad production wise probably and more costly in the long run...look up Deepwater and follow it from the beginning.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:39 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by harbor950 View Post
Stuff happens:

And yes, SNCF is 100% French government owned company.



The French train operator SNCF has discovered that 2,000 new trains it ordered at a cost of 15bn euros ($20.5bn; 12.1bn) are too wide for many regional platforms.

The BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris says that it is an embarrassing blunder that has so far cost the rail operator over 50m euros ($68.4m; 40.6m).



Construction work has already started to reconfigure station platforms.

The work will allow new trains room to pass through. But officials say that there are still 1,000 platforms to be adjusted.


The error seems to have happened because the national rail operator RFF gave the wrong dimensions to train company SNCF.

Our correspondent says that they measured platforms built less than 30 years ago, overlooking the fact that many of France's regional platforms were built more than 50 years ago when trains were a little slimmer.

The platform edges are too close to the tracks in some stations which means the trains cannot get in, officials say.

BBC News - French red faces over trains that are 'too wide'

It's the french... inventor of the Citroen

I'm sure they all scoffed at each other... grabbed a baguette and a bottle of wine.. and headed off to their mistresses to massage their "egos".

Actually I really like the french rail system.. typically they really get it right.. something we cannot do here in this fine country with Amtrak.
There is nothing much better than blasting through the French countryside at 175mph while drinking a excellent Burgundy and eating cheese.. while looking at some french hottie that looks like she is headed to Paris for a fashion show
HOLLYWOOD

wait a minute... this thread was about boats wasn't it??
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:46 AM   #216
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I don't know if anyone is aware of the building process that NM uses. NM uses a "cove and bead" strip building process rather than molds, either full female molds or cold molding. This process is more commonly used for very small boats, primarily kayaks/canoes. The hull is built up of strips, fitted together similar to a tongue & groove. So far as I know, the strips are made from resin infused glass. From the appearance of the hull, it looks as if the strips are then glassed over. According to Lemieux, this method is cheaper and allows more custom hull design, cheaper. He also claim it is more environmentally friendly. Not too sure I see that one.

I would be interested in any comments from Tad on using this method for such a large boat. Are there any differences in hull weight with this rather than a traditional hull? Are there differences in weight distribution within the hull?
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Old 05-25-2014, 03:02 AM   #217
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I don't know if anyone is aware of the building process that NM uses. NM uses a "cove and bead" strip building process rather than molds, either full female molds or cold molding. This process is more commonly used for very small boats, primarily kayaks/canoes. The hull is built up of strips, fitted together similar to a tongue & groove. So far as I know, the strips are made from resin infused glass. From the appearance of the hull, it looks as if the strips are then glassed over. According to Lemieux, this method is cheaper and allows more custom hull design, cheaper. He also claim it is more environmentally friendly. Not too sure I see that one.

I would be interested in any comments from Tad on using this method for such a large boat. Are there any differences in hull weight with this rather than a traditional hull? Are there differences in weight distribution within the hull?
I know nothing regarding their processes other than this from their site:

As a pioneer in the application of resin-infusion and other vacuum-assisted construction methods, Northern Marine has developed many of the composite processes currently in use throughout the yacht building industry

They mention nothing about the method you mentioned. They do however have some photos at the top of their home page that give some insight into it.

Now the one thing that was included in Roddan Engineering report was that this boat was considerably lighter for it's size than any other boats they had built. This was in their report from last summer and added a variable into the stability question.

Makes sense that it's cheaper if you're customizing. Mold pays off in multiple builds of the same boat. Obviously it allows each boat to be custom. The negative would then seem to be the opposite, failing to reap any benefits of being semi-custom. But then with their volume they've always been more custom than semi.

Very interesting post.
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:16 AM   #218
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Don't really see what the problem is. Just get up a good head of steam, tell everybody to stand back and let 'er rip. Problem solved.
Funny. That's exactly what Northern Marine did with the launch... :-)
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:32 PM   #219
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A truly tragic event for everyone involved and I look forward to reading the U.S.C.G report, findings and conclusions.
The NTSB report is available now. Marine Accident Brief MAB-15-14
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