And meanwhile in the Chesapeake...

[Bacchus]

Polestar
You may very well be right.
Having more facts and testimony is reqd.
It will probably end up some where between our extremes...
Will be interested to see who ends up closer???

 

[Polestar]

Polestar
You may very well be right.
Having more facts and testimony is reqd.
It will probably end up some where between our extremes...
Will be interested to see who ends up closer???

The bet is on--for bragging rights. OK

 

[Bacchus]

OK... Closest wins. [emoji16]

 

[dhays]

A. It wasn’t the weekend. The Bay was completely empty



B. That is not a crowded section of the bay. We routinely race 25-50 sailboats in that area during busy weekends. No one has ever needed a valet to get the fishing boat off of their companionway.



C. By your logic, a fisherman should not use the public space when it is busy. Seriously?



The rules exist to protect those with limited ability to react. Just because you chose to not understand the people sharing the waterway, doesn’t mean you have any special rights.



Get a rule book.

Hm... lets try to keep this friendly. TF isn’t the US House of Representatives after all. Psneed knows the rules and has spent years of his professional life dedicated to helping boaters such as ourselves.

 

[dhays]

OK I'll admit I haven't read every post here but have many.
It seems most are focusing on rules reagrding stand on vs give way vessels and ignoring the general rules of the need to maintain a lookout... especially important on a sailing vessel with a couple blind spots.
Also, and likely more pertinent in this case is the reqmt to take evasive action to avoid a collision regardless of which boat has the "right of way".
Along with that, one needs to take action early enough and deliberate enough to not only avoid the collision but to make the move obvious to the other vessel.
Just a guess, as noone has the facts here but I'd be willing to place my bet on a ruling of a 50/50 responsibilty (or pretty close to that) because both had the above respinsibilities and apparently neither had the reqd lookout or took the proper action.
I would also bet we see this one written up in one or more articles like Boat US Mag.

We certainly don’t have all the information and I am on the other side of the country and don’t know the waters involved. Even so, I would disagree with you. It is true that rule 2 places a burden on everyone to do what is necessary to avoid a collision. However, imagine if that powerboat was going to make a close pass and the sailboat, in an attempt to avoid a potential collision, made a tack that would take them INTO the path of the powerboat? The sailboat was the stand-on vessel. They have a responsibility to hold a predictable and consistent course so the powerboat can maneuver to avoid them. Rule 2 says that despite being the stand-on vessel, the sailboat should take any action to avoid a collision. I would contend that given the disparities in speed and maneuverability, in addition to the requirement to stand-on, the sailboat should, and likely will, share very little if any responsibility for the collision.

As you say, there likely will be articles written that will fully explore the event and we will find out what really happened.

 

[Bacchus]

dhays
I certainly can't & won't argue w/ you or others on this one.
We know so little.
I'm no expert on regs and would never claim to know much on the subject.
I just know that I have been surprised on many cases published where my first reaction was near total blame on one boater and the verdict came out much more of a split responsibility.

 

[Juggerknot]

View attachment 79790

Where's Rodney Dangerfield?

 

[Juggerknot]

Just for the sake of clarity, the sailboat’s engine can be on to charge the batteries or chill the cold plate, and she will still have rights if the engine is not being used for propulsion. Think transmission in neutral. You may not understand how or why a sailboat does what it does, but your ignorance doesn’t change your burden to give way.

Also, more fishermen should learn the difference between “trolling” and “trawling”. And if you think planar boards constitute the latter(they don’t) you owe us all some day shapes that advertise your ignorance. Know the rules.

In this case, there is simply no way to imagine a realistic scenario where the sailboat is at fault or could have avoided the collision. Charter boat captain is gonna have to go back to his land job.

He was the reigning demolition derby champ 3 years running =)

 

[Juggerknot]

Another entry for the caption contest: "Excuse me, do you have any Grey Poupon?".

Glad nobody was killed.

Cheers, Bill

"No lovey, I said "stirred not shaken "...

 

[Juggerknot]

Another entry for the caption contest: "Excuse me, do you have any Grey Poupon?".

Glad nobody was killed.

Cheers, Bill

No but I bet they have some brown poupon in their skivvies

 

[markpierce]

"Maybe if sailboats actually used steaming cones, there wouldn't be so much ignorance in BOTH. camps."


Perhaps but in over 50 years of boating , mostly anchored at night , I can not remember a single anchorage where a black ball at the bow was shown by one single vessel, except us. Power or sail.

You haven't seen us.

 

[ranger58sb]

An update, from the local paper:

Crash survivor: 'All of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat' - Capital Gazette

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

An update, from the local paper:

Crash survivor: 'All of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat' - Capital Gazette

-Chris

Thanks...no real new meat to the story though.

 

[Shrew]

Would you classify that small charter boat as a commercial vessel?

If it's a bare-bones charter boat (rental) then I assume the skipper is of limited experience and give them ample space.

 

[BandB]

If it's a bare-bones charter boat (rental) then I assume the skipper is of limited experience and give them ample space.

Unlikely it was bare-bones or bareboat. They're a fishing charter service, professional captain and typically mate and up to six passengers. They also do dinner cruises and custom trips. One boat, the Wild Kat. Chet Clough likely the captain.

Small, one boat operation, as are many fishing charter services and some of those are incredible as captains and as fishing professionals.

Very sad event that could have been tragic. I feel for all involved.

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks...no real new meat to the story though.

Yeah. No mention about taking evasive action...

If it's a bare-bones charter boat (rental) then I assume the skipper is of limited experience and give them ample space.

I think both boats in this incident are charters, one bareboat sailing (rental), one Captained fishing.

Said (elsewhere, second-hand info) to be Jaimie's first fishing charter with that new boat. Haven't heard whether there was also a mate aboard, but that's the usual situation.

-Chris

 

[BandB]

Said (elsewhere, second-hand info) to be Jaimie's first fishing charter with that new boat. Haven't heard whether there was also a mate aboard, but that's the usual situation.

-Chris

Ah....so Jamie typically Chet's mate. Don't know then if he had one if he was captaining. Definitely a captained charter though.

 

[dhays]

Thanks...no real new meat to the story though.

It does provide a statement from the skipper of the J105 that he “stayed his course”. That can both help and hurt him. It means that he stood on as the other was the give way vessel. So he didn’t maneuver in front of the charter boat. OTOH, it could be interpreted that he didn’t do everything in his power to avoid a collision.

 

[BruceK]

Very hard to blame another boat when yours appears to T-bone the other boat which seems to be right in a direct line of sight forward.
But it`s possible an exhaling whale projected the sailboat airborne and dropped it at right angles in the path of the powerboat. That would certainly explain it. Now, where`s that whale to sue? Let`s ask Captain Ahab.

 

[ranger58sb]

It does provide a statement from the skipper of the J105 that he “stayed his course”. That can both help and hurt him. It means that he stood on as the other was the give way vessel. So he didn’t maneuver in front of the charter boat. OTOH, it could be interpreted that he didn’t do everything in his power to avoid a collision.

But the sailor may have tried to avoid collision, and just didn't say it during that interview. Or he may have said that he tried to turn away, but the reporter didn't include that in the quote. Or the editor chopped that. And so forth.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

He also said they were heeling to starboard....different than what many of the amatuer crash invetigators were portraying from the picture when the story first broke.

I dont necessarily believe what the guy says...people involved in accidents and even eye witnesses often tell stories full of half truths or misrepresentations. The statements have to be cherry picked for morsels that support other evidence.

He also didnt say he made radio calls which the armchair guys are saying he did....so what really happened? If the sailor was calling on CH 16, the USCG should have tapes of it.


We will see......

Even if the sailor is totally innocent in the eyes of the armchair investigators, the maritime couts often assign a good chunk of blame all around....

 

[BandB]

Even if the sailor is totally innocent in the eyes of the armchair investigators, the maritime courts often assign a good chunk of blame all around....

But the vast majority never reach court. Likely captain of powerboat ticketed and warned with some marks on his record, but keeps license unless a history of issues. As to liability for the accident, unless some surprising information surfaces, I'd expect the powerboat owner's insurance to settle and pay all. Had there been serious injuries and/or death, then you could have expected a court fight but the damage in this case to the sailboat isn't sufficient monetary amount to make that likely.

 

[koliver]

The sailor says they were heeling to Stb, Had they been on a Starboard tack, the bow of the powerboat would have cut them in half, rather than riding up onto the deck. The picture shows the mainsheet attachment still in the port tack position, despite the gooseneck end of the boom having broken off, supporting the port tack statement. Unfortunately for the sailboat's exposure to liability, being on a port tack on a J105, visibility under the boom would be at least partially obscured by the sail, so their opportunity to react to the presence of the other on a collision course would be reduced. An opportunity to quickly turn away was there, but they may not have had sufficient time to do so, due to that reduced visibility.
I am now thinking 75/25 on the powerboat.