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Old 03-14-2013, 08:54 PM   #1
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Maybe this one?

Westwinds,
You still here?

What do you think of this boat?

Think the year is too old for steel?

1968 Conrad N.V. Kalp Holland Power Boat For
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:13 PM   #2
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Greetings,
Now THAT'S a nice boat!
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:34 PM   #3
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Gardner engines! Me likey.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:41 PM   #4
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galaxy girl I say this with the best intentions.. You will have plenty of work to do on any large yacht, do yourself a GIANT favor and do not consider a wood or steel boat I fear the extra work required on these boats will quickly overwhelm you of course that is my humble opinion and I could be wrong
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:43 PM   #5
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Nice boat, I don't care for the draft thou, it draws a bit to much for coastal cruising ....IMO.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:53 PM   #6
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Nothing wrong with a well found, well built steel boat. It's really hard to tell from pictures but when I see a clean engine room I'd expect the rest to be well maintained too. If that hull has been well maintained it will outlast you Galaxy
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:57 PM   #7
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Nice boat, I don't care for the draft thou, it draws a bit to much for coastal cruising ....IMO.
Yeah, but, a good transatlantic capable boat should have a fairly hefty draft, I believe, and every boat is a compromise. I'll compromise some coastal access in return for European access
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:24 PM   #8
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Greetings,
Now THAT'S a nice boat!
Glad you think so.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:33 PM   #9
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galaxy girl I say this with the best intentions.. You will have plenty of work to do on any large yacht, do yourself a GIANT favor and do not consider a wood or steel boat I fear the extra work required on these boats will quickly overwhelm you of course that is my humble opinion and I could be wrong
Thanks for your input and concern. Your right. I have completely outruled wood. Problem is, every boat that I am drawn to is steel. Also, I have heard that steel boats are great for international travel.

I think that once I have a good maintenance plan with some professional and some DIY, I should be ok. I am very good about staying on top of things. I am not going to purchase anything that is a project or not in very good condition to start with.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:43 PM   #10
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I like the 66' Conrad N.V. Kalp Holland a lot just looking at it. At first I thought there might be too much horsepower with two engines to be economical. However it looks about right to me because you get 127 hp per engine at 1500 RPM. http://www.gardnermarine.com/gardner-marine-engines/standard-engines.aspx and click on 6LXD Fact Sheet. I do like the idea of two engines for redundancy and you do not need as much in spare parts to carry with you if you have an extra engine. These low turning engines are economical and long lived and you can still get parts for the Gardner engines.

Of course you do need a trusted surveyor to have a look at it that goes without saying. The cabins might seem small for a boat this size but from what I have read about kids, as long as they have a space to call their own on a boat, size matters little. I have thought some of the boats you were looking at were large and might be a maintenance problem just by their size, the bigger it is the more work to keep up. This boat I think is as small as you can go and still get the cabins you what

Are you going to look at it?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:49 PM   #11
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From the pics, one of the best looking boats I've seen.
Too big for the boating I plan on doing but might be just right for you.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:09 AM   #12
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I think you've found a nice boat!

I like the steel construction. Yes, you will forever be painting, but chipping, sanding and painting is not a difficult to learn skill for you and your family.

I like the engine room photos. It looks clean, and the engine looks to be a dry exhaust which is a big plus.

With your need for berthing for you, your mom and 5 kids, along with ocean crossing ability you set a specific standard. This boat is not for everyone but it looks ideally suited to your needs.

Are you buying plane tickets to go look at it yet???
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:47 AM   #13
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I took a look at the photos trying to come up with problems. It has 2641 gallons of diesel. There are two engines that can use about 5 gallons per hour each. Say it goes 8 knots. That is a range of 2100 miles. This is really a guess on range, but gives some idea. The sewage holding tank is only 132 gallons. Does the dock you plan to stay at have a sewage line? With 7 people I doubt the tank would hold more than a day's sewage. If the water maker quits, if you figure 2 quarts per person per day for emergency use, looks like there would be enough at water at 528 gallons fresh water.

I see no handholds. Those must be added. The stove looks electric and has nothing for holding pots in place in bad weather. There is no generator for power to operate the stove while away from shore. It would take a large 60 Hertz 115 volt to 50 Hertz 230 volts converter hooked to shore power for the stove. Need a different stove. The handles on the cabinets look like there are no buttons to push for a secure latch. With bad weather, everything would be on the floor. The teak side decks look like replacement is needed. I wonder if there is rust underneath. If you look at photo 28 to the right of the steering gear, looks like extensive rust. Boats rust from the inside out so be careful. French Polynesia is a ways to go so I am wondering if there is anyway to get a preliminary assessment on the rust issues.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:27 AM   #14
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Greetings,
Ms. GG. Mr. westwinds raises valid concerns to which I will add one other. A steel hull is in need of regular zinc maintenance. More so than wood or FRP. You could be looking at a hefty expense to haul and re-zinc on a regular basis. I don't think this is a diver job. The boat has to be hauled. To my understanding the old zincs have to be ground off and new ones welded on. Just one more thing to add to the equation...
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:22 AM   #15
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What do you think of this boat?
Four comments:

1) Before you do anything, get the broker to send at least 100 high-res pictures taken within the past month.

2) This boat is being sold for a value that is less than the cost of the most recent refit. Why?

3) This is a European boat, with the attendant conversion/tax/complication issues.

4) As with the Malahide, by the time this is safely moored on the US west coast, tax paid, ready for use in North America, you will have spent an additional $300,000. This is a beautiful boat, but is it a $700K boat?

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Old 03-15-2013, 08:48 AM   #16
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This is a beautiful old ship!! But, before you go much further I would seriously check out whether you would ever be able to insure it, at any price, even with a full-time qualified captain. You would need to insure for the journey to US East Coast (8,000 miles??), then on an ongoing basis. You will need additional fuel capacity to make it from Polynesia to the nearest refueling in Galapagos (approx 3500 nm) I do not agree with the draft comment - 6ft (2m) is quite normal for sailboats or full displacement trawlers. You will not be able to cruise the Florida Keys!!
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:14 AM   #17
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Westwind, I think I see a Kohler gen in one of the engine room pictures and it does list one in the specs.
I like this one too and with the age and knowing a little about steel boats of this age, I owned a 1972 44' Offshore by TD Vinnette, a good survey is called for. Be sure to look in some of the out of way places like under and behind fuel tanks etc. The paint systems we have now days is far superior to what was available back then. But the good news is with steel is it's repairable anywhere in the world and not near as expensive as FG.
I also like the round stern and the heighth of the superstructure. The deep draft is typical of what you need for open ocean work, ask a commercial fish trawler what there draft is. Anyway I like it and go in with your eyes open.Larry
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:18 AM   #18
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That vessel is a small ship, and maintenance, berthing, and fuel costs would be high. But if brought up to scratch, would certainly do what you appear to want to do.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:10 AM   #19
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This is a beautiful old ship!! But, before you go much further I would seriously check out whether you would ever be able to insure it, at any price, even with a full-time qualified captain. You would need to insure for the journey to US East Coast (8,000 miles??), then on an ongoing basis.
Technically there is no need to insure a vessel for use on the high seas, or even coastal waters. It's typically the marinas that require insurance.

Of course, with that said, if you self-insure and you have something like a small grounding, with a little leakage of a few thousand gallons of diesel and some lube oil, maybe somewhere like Puget Sound or the Chesapeake... you can be looking at a cleanup bill in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And don't just dismiss this as an impossibility, it can and does happen. And with all levels of government increasingly short of cash, they are going to be keen to recover expenses.

As I have pointed out before, when I attempted to get insurance on Island Eagle I was required to take a two day check-out voyage with a Transport Canada licensed captain, who then wrote a fairly detailed letter to my insurance company about my ability to captain such a vessel. And note that I have been boating for 30 years.

Once again, there are no shortcuts to owning a vessel of this size and complexity.

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Old 03-15-2013, 11:29 AM   #20
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Overall I like Tigress. I think she is about as good of a fit for GG's needs as she is going to find.

I plugged her numbers into my spreadsheet. Yachtworld claims she is 87,500 kg full load but 1968 Conrad N.V. Kalp Holland - Boats.com claims she is 87,500 kg dry weight. Using 87,500 kg as the dry weight she will never achieve the 10 knots max speed that they claim. Using the 87,500 kg as full load and subtracting 35% of the fuel weight gives an average voyaging weight of 186,245 lbs (note: performance calculations are usually done at half load or the weight at the mid point of the passage. Actual fuel consumption will be worse at the start and better at the end, but using half load is very close to the average.) The listing states she is 20.0 m length over all (LOA) but provides no length at water line (LWL) so i guessed 60 feet. Using the dry weight (i.e. no fuel or water) and the 150 HP per engine at 1650 rpm rating I get a maximum speed of 9.97 knots which is very close to the claimed 10 knot maximum (so I think my calculations are pretty good if you can believe their data).

Next, I used the Gardner fuel consumption rate of 0.33 lbs/HP/hr, which equates to 0.048 gal/HP/hr (most engines consume about 0.055 gal/HP/hr but Gardner engines are notoriously fuel efficient). I also assumed 0.58 gal/hr for the generator. Using these values, I calculate a fuel burn rate at 8 knots of 8 gal/hr and a range with 30% reserve of 1,858 NM. Tigress should achieve a range of 2,400 NM with 30% fuel reserve if she slows to 6.9 knots which requires 100 HP and consumes 5.32 gal/hr. This 2400 NM passage will require 323.7 hr or 13.5 days, so you need space to store 3 to 4 weeks of supplies.

My main concern is that the listing does not mention stabilizers or thrusters, both of which would be on my must have list. I had complete a trip and dock single handed in an emergency once and I vowed I'd by boat would be configured for single hand operation. I think I could single hand Tigress if she had hydraulic bow and stern thrusters.
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