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Old 03-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #121
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The boat is gorgeous and like brand new. It is more than I wanted to spend. 3 staterooms, 5 kids, plus adults would be tight. I would have to rip out 2 of the beds and re-configure bunks in, which wouldn't be the worst thing. This would only work for me as a Plan A boat. So, it would have to be an ocean-crosser. It seems like more of a long range coastal boat?
Yes, 710 horse power means a planing hull or semi-displacement so not good for bad weather unless you want to try and out run a storm. Also the range will not be much trying to feed all those horses. This is again one of those direct drive propeller boats, not efficient.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #122
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Greetings,
Mr. s. Of course, There's always a plan "B".
She was presented with plan B, C and D months ago.

BTW, there are two marvelous newer BIG Defevers on the west coast, not just Art DeFever's own boat mentioned above. The other is a 60'er with cockpit located in Seattle. I know for a fact the 60 did San Diego to Seattle last fall on its own bottom with no refuel stops. Sounds like blue water capable to me.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:02 PM   #123
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Yes, 710 horse power means a planing hull or semi-displacement so not good for bad weather .
710 HP means little in describing the hull shape and sea keeping ability. I've seen the twin to this hull out of the water and it is not a planing boat.

DeFevers are not good for bad weather you say? Quite the opposite, they are amongst the best.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:46 PM   #124
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710 HP means little in describing the hull shape and sea keeping ability. I've seen the twin to this hull out of the water and it is not a planing boat.

DeFevers are not good for bad weather you say? Quite the opposite, they are amongst the best.
Better have a marine architect comment. The reason I flagged this is the horse power is way over what is needed for a displacement hull for this size boat.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:52 PM   #125
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Westwinds,
What to you think of the Sea Ranger that I posted? Do you think it would get about a gallon a mile?
This boat is a hard one for me to comment on because it has an 11 foot extension. Originally I think this might have been a semi-displacement hull. I could be wrong. No mention is made about whether there is a transmission with reduction gearing normally used with the displacement hull resulting in good fuel economy. The 8-71 Detroit Diesel can be run at lower engine speed (RPM) than some diesels, but I am not sure if you can get the RPM low enough to be economical without the slobbering problem. Maybe propellers that vary the pitch depending on load would help, but a marine architect would need to comment. I notice one of the engines has very low hours. The other might be ready for a rebuild. These engines are normally set for 318 horsepower each but in this application 435 horsepower is what is developed and it really wears out these engines very fast. This is another reason I think this is originally a semi-displacement as one engine would be plenty even running at 40% of the 318 horsepower rating if it were a displacement hull. The 40% power is where problems with slobbering start to occur. If run at displacement speed on one engine, I think it would probably get a mile per gallon, but steering might be a problem at this low speed. A semi-displacement hull is not as sea worthy as a displacement hull. This might be a very nice plan B boat. I wonder if there would be a problem with resale when you go to plan A with this boat.

I thought originally you wanted a North Sea type trawler for safety in bad weather. I guess this is Plan A. In reading Voyaging Under Power, though, only Cheoy Lee, Romsdal and Malahide made trawlers with enough cabins for your family, and there might be some question about the Cheoy Lee in bad weather. You do not like wood and I think Romsdal and Malahide are that material. If you go to a trawler converted to living, you run into the problem of no ports for ventilation and daylight. I think this is why my mind started considering motor sailor boats. Here is a link about that: The Ultimate Motor Sailor - Lucille
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #126
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This boat is a hard one for me to comment on because it has an 11 foot extension. Originally I think this might have been a semi-displacement hull. I could be wrong. No mention is made about whether there is a transmission with reduction gearing normally used with the displacement hull resulting in good fuel economy. The 8-71 Detroit Diesel can be run at lower engine speed (RPM) than some diesels, but I am not sure if you can get the RPM low enough to be economical without the slobbering problem. Maybe propellers that vary the pitch depending on load would help, but a marine architect would need to comment. I notice one of the engines has very low hours. The other might be ready for a rebuild. These engines are normally set for 318 horsepower each but in this application 435 horsepower is what is developed and it really wears out these engines very fast. This is another reason I think this is originally a semi-displacement as one engine would be plenty even running at 40% of the 318 horsepower rating if it were a displacement hull. The 40% power is where problems with slobbering start to occur. If run at displacement speed on one engine, I think it would probably get a mile per gallon, but steering might be a problem at this low speed. A semi-displacement hull is not as sea worthy as a displacement hull. This might be a very nice plan B boat. I wonder if there would be a problem with resale when you go to plan A with this boat.

I thought originally you wanted a North Sea type trawler for safety in bad weather. I guess this is Plan A. In reading Voyaging Under Power, though, only Cheoy Lee, Romsdal and Malahide made trawlers with enough cabins for your family, and there might be some question about the Cheoy Lee in bad weather. You do not like wood and I think Romsdal and Malahide are that material. If you go to a trawler converted to living, you run into the problem of no ports for ventilation and daylight. I think this is why my mind started considering motor sailor boats. Here is a link about that: The Ultimate Motor Sailor - Lucille
Yes, I was definitely thinking of the Sea Ranger as a Plan B boat. The broker responded to my e-mail. For what it's woth (probably not much) he says the fuel burn is 15 gallons at 10 knots.

I am also concerned about trying to sell a 75' boat later. I feel like I am the only person out there that could use a boat this long, with the exception of the richie rich folks, of course, and they arn't buying this kind of boat.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:29 PM   #127
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Greetings,
Ms. GG. "...concerned about trying to sell a 75' boat later." Good grief! I'm outa here..
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:37 PM   #128
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...I notice one of the engines has very low hours. The other might be ready for a rebuild. These engines are normally set for 318 horsepower each but in this application 435 horsepower is what is developed and it really wears out these engines very fast...
The Detroit two cycle diesel may last only 200 hours with injectors that really spray a lot of diesel into the cylinders. Just too much heat is developed and it destroys the cylinders. When these engines are used on over the road trucks, they last 10,000 hours and that's pedal to the metal use. All it takes is a different size injector to do that and these cost about $100 each rebuilt.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:12 PM   #129
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BTW, this is in no way an offshore boat.

Scott
Back in the 90s or early 2000s Grand Banks built three GB66s. Similar in style to the GB52 Europa, the GB66 was a total failure. The buyer of the first one insisted on a fully enclosed (aka heavy), heated, glass-windowed pilothouse in place of the open flying bridge that was originally planned. Same idea as the pilothouse on the boat in GG's link. When the buyers of hulls 2 and 3 saw what the first guy had done, they insisted on the same thing.

One of these boats was commissioned at the then-GB dealer in Bellingham and we walked past this butt-ugly monster every time we went to our boat. The lead shipwright on the commissioning team was a friend who'd done some work on our boat from time to time. He told us the GB66 was amazingly unstable. Simply walking from one side of the boat deck to the other set the boat to rocking. The half-serious joke among the commissioning team was that if you didn't want to get seasick while working on the boat when it was tied to the dock, the solution was to turn on the stabilizers.

The boat in GGs link appears to me to potentially have the same issue.

Grand Banks made the three GB66s and then abandoned the model. A few years later they created their Aleutian line which is a whole different concept.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:13 PM   #130
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GG You seem to be painting yourself into a corner trying to get a boat with enough cabins to suit your families wants on your budget, which I'm guessing is somewhere south of $500K all total. Perhaps you have more than that to spend, but I think this guess is pretty accurate.

I know you've heard this before, but I'm going to say it anyway. The boats you're pointing out are on the very expensive side of their lifecycles. They are of an age, and of a condition where the boats need some serious restoration work to get them back to a fully seaworthy state. They will also cost you allot in ongoing maintenance because of the age of the systems, and the sheer number of different pieces of old equipment involved.

I know you have a dream, and I support that, heck everyone here does. The problem is how do you make that dream come true, and not find yourself with a boat you cannot afford to maintain.

Thats easy, look at smaller boats in better condition. Bunk up with your mom, or sleep on the watchstanders berth in the pilothouse. Make the kids bunk up together.

You can live your dream, but its going to take some compromises, or you're going to have to cough up more money on a better condition boat.

BTW, if you've got the $$ and think the boats you're looking at are great bargains, think again. An inexpensive boat for its size and age can actually be more expensive in the long run than buying a better condition example in the first place.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:21 PM   #131
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Better have a marine architect comment.
I believe Art DeFever did just that when he was designing the 63 flush deck for himself 14 years ago.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:57 AM   #132
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Defever is known as a coastal boat.
What model? My 48 is basically full displacement and has 3500nm range with a very low COG.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #133
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I believe Art DeFever did just that when he was designing the 63 flush deck for himself 14 years ago.
....and my guess is that it's ready to go!
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:45 AM   #134
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How do you get to 3500nm with a very low COG ???
Just kidding!!
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:36 PM   #135
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Greetings,
Ms. GG. "...concerned about trying to sell a 75' boat later." Good grief! I'm outa here..
No NO! RT - Please...

Don't leave us abandoned to the perils of choosing a craft for the crafty! We need you sardonic-isms! We B left bereft of what to do or say as the crafty craft choosets "float" all over the map toward incorrectness of choice with no background to understand how they ever got there!!

No NO! RT - Please Stay... We all need other Firefly spot-on vid-short shockers that stand as hallmark to your piercing, intrepid ways! Closure to this clearly indiscernible search for “what-ifs” can surely meet with failure if the RTF squad of reverse osmoted thinking were to disappear from TF posting ranks!
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:44 PM   #136
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:54 PM   #137
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Hello there!
While we're on the subject of Defever, and since I can't have my Sutton
maybe some would like to comment on this one:
1989 Defever Long Range Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Seriously guys, all the help & knowledge has not been taken lightly.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:01 PM   #138
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Hello there!
While we're on the subject of Defever, and since I can't have my Sutton
maybe some would like to comment on this one:
1989 Defever Long Range Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Seriously guys, all the help & knowledge has not been taken lightly.
Dreams, dreams, dreams, If you and GG are serious, you go to inspect a choosen boat. Take a Naval Engineer or Architect with you. All your posts here will not bring you one inch more closer to your dreams.

My 2 centavos
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:33 PM   #139
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Listed as single engine, however shows photos of port engine and starboard engine.

Lazy broker, or, something else?
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:35 PM   #140
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Yes, in due time, we will narrow down a few boats to go see. We have been looking around here. The input here is invaluable, and we are learning. Believe me, once we
do start looking, we will do it properly.

Just my tuppence...
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