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Old 03-16-2013, 05:39 PM   #81
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Scott put the bottom line to this best.

Forget foreign boats, high risk low reward, if one is going to start their boating life in the USA and knows nothing about boats or boating.

Here are two people that this person should engage professionally right now:

Judy Waldman, who probably knows all the different passage makers as well or better than anyone in the industry, including steel.
JW Yachts (Ft. Lauderdale, FL)

Gale Browning, she did my survey, is excellent and is an experienced open ocean captain

Hartoft Marine Survey, Ltd., Annapolis


By the way, a professional photographer retained by you will take any kind of picture you want. You want all the warts and nits, they know how to give them to you in very high quality rather than some amateur with their own ideas and a point and shoot camera. You want someone with no opinion about boats, but will take direction from your surveyor, captain and broker as to exactly what to look for. But again, Scott is right, this is a moot point.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:00 PM   #82
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Regarding bow height and low to water concerns. Our Selene has a high bow which in conjunction with the Portuguese bridge helps deflect the big ones from washing over the deck. Having said that we have still been in conditions where we were shipping water over the top of the pilot house. In my book, high bow is good. On the other hand, our mid ship and stern decks are relatively close to water level. That has never been an issue even under tough conditions. If a large wave were to hit us from the stern it would be a problem even if the deck were quite a bit higher, same for the side hit. Thing is you do not want to expose your boat to these conditions in the first place. The (high) bow is meant to go through the water first!! Having the salon accommodation and decks nearer to sea level makes the boat more stable and less rolly - definitely more comfortable underway or at anchor.
That's what I thought. That a high bow would help keep waves off the deck. Thanks for the info.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #83
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Some trawlers have sails to stabilize them and for getting home if the engine quits. This type of trawler is quite similar to a motor sailer, which has a large engine and small sails suitable for downwind work. I went looking and found the following, but am thinking that each might have issues.

1992 Motor Sailer Steel 80 | Carnival Cruises, Cruises, Cruise Deals and Cheap Cruises, Cruise Reviews and Videos four cabins $443,030 dollars. The engine is 580 horsepower. This steel boat is 80 feet long and may be large for your purposes.

1982 Gallian Motorsailer | Carnival Cruises, Cruises, Cruise Deals and Cheap Cruises, Cruise Reviews and Videos five cabins, $787,454 dollars so that is probably beyond your budget. Boat is composite (fiberglass?).

Long Range Steel Cruise Motorsailer Trawler For Sale - Buy Trawler Product on Alibaba.com
5 cabins, 18 berths, sauna, $208,574.54 Dollars US, 400 horsepower seems large, boat is somewhat smaller at 18 meters. Since one meter equals 3.28 feet, the boat is 59 feet long. The cabins must be quite small. The fuel tank holds 4000 liters diesel. Since one liter equals 0.264 United States gallons (not British Imperial Gallons) the diesel tank holds 1065 gallons so the range is insufficient for ocean cruising. Boat is steel.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:09 PM   #84
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GG, I really like the lines of that boat in the pacific, maybe not the old equipment. Maybe it's time to talk to someone like Custom Steel Boats in NC. The Flowers have been building in steel for a long time. Maybe show Rodney Flowers a picture of what you want, I'm pretty sure he has a long list of Naval Archetics he works with. What have you got to lose? Could be interesting. I've never met the Flowers, just what I've read about them through boating publications.Larryw
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:43 PM   #85
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One more:
1992 Turkish Steel M/S S/704875 | Boat & Yacht Market ,boats for sale, new boats, used boats, sailing yachts, power boats, yacht brokers , boat sale , yacht sale
$569,610, steel, 79 feet, built 1992, rebuilt 1999 /2007 in Greece, steel with 2cm Burma teak, 2 doubles, 2 twins, 2 crew cabins (all ensuite)

There are also several wooden boats with 4 cabins at the same site: www.boatyachtmarket.com
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #86
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GG: As you must be aware by now, there are lots of old (cheap) big steel boats out there, dotted all around the world. If you have been successful in business, as you claim, then surely you must realize there is reason for all this?? They are (becoming) a liability in terms of upkeep and ongoing maintenance. Yes, we all linger over the photos of these once great vessels but most of us end up with a boat far more practical for our real needs. As others have suggested buying a vessel at a remote overseas location is fraught with difficulty, risk and unexpected costs. Better off to spend more on a newer, US-based boat that you can see and research more easily with known professional help. I think the old adage "pay me now or pay me later" is especially true with boats. Even more so because it is unlikely that you will be able to fix/repair/maintain the types of vessels being proposed without a lot more experience or full-time captain/crew. Boats of this size are complex machines. Old boats are even more complex because you usually start with old equipment that has been fixed/repaired, there are no diagrams, parts lists, circuit diagrams, piping diagrams, etc. etc. There are people who dream about doing things themselves offering you advice that they would most likely never follow themselves!!!
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:53 AM   #87
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GG: As you must be aware by now, there are lots of old (cheap) big steel boats out there, dotted all around the world. If you have been successful in business, as you claim, then surely you must realize there is reason for all this?? They are (becoming) a liability in terms of upkeep and ongoing maintenance. Yes, we all linger over the photos of these once great vessels but most of us end up with a boat far more practical for our real needs. As others have suggested buying a vessel at a remote overseas location is fraught with difficulty, risk and unexpected costs. Better off to spend more on a newer, US-based boat that you can see and research more easily with known professional help. I think the old adage "pay me now or pay me later" is especially true with boats. Even more so because it is unlikely that you will be able to fix/repair/maintain the types of vessels being proposed without a lot more experience or full-time captain/crew. Boats of this size are complex machines. Old boats are even more complex because you usually start with old equipment that has been fixed/repaired, there are no diagrams, parts lists, circuit diagrams, piping diagrams, etc. etc. There are people who dream about doing things themselves offering you advice that they would most likely never follow themselves!!!
Great post!

Boats are the prototype for the saying: "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

If one thinks that somehow steel boats are inherently "better" I can posts some pix of a 4 1/2 year old 55' Bering that has been on the hard here in NC for a long long time. A few samples:





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Old 03-18-2013, 10:20 AM   #88
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What have you got to lose?
Let's see, a 70 footer, open ocean capable, fully equipped, in the water?

I'd say you'd need about $4 million to lose.

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Old 03-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #89
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There are people who dream about doing things themselves offering you advice that they would most likely never follow themselves!!!
Just what I was thinking.

I my case, I bought a "bargain" 40 year old 60 foot boat. I have a pretty good idea what the cost will be. I can say categorically that the purchase cost of such a vessel represents a modest (<25%) amount of the ultimate expenditure.

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Old 03-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #90
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But the fun doing it --PRICELESS!!
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #91
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But the fun doing it --PRICELESS!!
You know what they say about how to make a small fortune fixing up old boats...

Start with a large fortune.

Scott
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #92
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You know what they say about how to make a small fortune fixing up old boats...

Start with a large fortune.

Scott


That advice applies to all old boats regardless of size. The numbers seem to square by the boat length.

GG, I've wasted more hours than I care to admit looking longingly at old large boats and will only offer that it is a false economy. An old saying goes "you get what you pay for", not always true with boats.

That 4 1/2 year old Bering that George posted pictures of was lauded as the next best thing since sliced bread when it launched according to the reviews I read. It doesn't look to be anymore...
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:49 PM   #93
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Whether itís a house, car, RV, or boat there is a lot of trash out there and you have to just keep looking as maybe one in ten is worth considering. For my boat what I had to do was determine how much I wanted to spend and keep looking in the price range. I found what I wanted, but did not have a anyone along to take a dispassionate good look at the boat. I missed a retracting keel that needed fiberglass work, it did not move up and down as it should. Also, I missed where water had frozen and caused some cracks in the fiberglass floor. I fixed both myself but if I had slowed up and put about 30 minutes more into the inspection, I probably would not have bought the boat. My point is you need a surveyor to keep you honest about the boatís condition and that if you keep looking, you will find one that either needs a little fixing up but is basically sound where the owner lost interest, or one that is just spotless and the owner has to get out for some financial reason, but an any rate the boat is a good one.

There are boats that have been kept up and ones that have been rebuilt, but it takes a lot of looking. Folks are saying thereís a lot of trash out there and that is correct, but with a careful inspection, I think GG will find her boat. She probably will have to spend a bit more for one in good condition but itís best to have someone else spend all the money it takes to get it right. The boating market did the same thing as the housing market only worse so some people put a lot of money into a boat to fix it up and now there is no way to get that money back. GG has said she wants a boat that is already fixed up so I think she knows what she is doing; she has seen it in the housing market. Right now the stock market is where the money is and some of these folks are looking for that spotless boat, the party dock queen, but thatís not what GG wants. The motor sailor is out of fashion and the trawlers she is looking at are not flashy so she is avoiding that competition.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #94
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GG, I really like the lines of that boat in the pacific, maybe not the old equipment. Maybe it's time to talk to someone like Custom Steel Boats in NC. The Flowers have been building in steel for a long time. Maybe show Rodney Flowers a picture of what you want, I'm pretty sure he has a long list of Naval Archetics he works with. What have you got to lose? Could be interesting. I've never met the Flowers, just what I've read about them through boating publications.Larryw
Good thought Larry. Thnx
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:54 PM   #95
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Whether itís a house, car, RV, or boat there is a lot of trash out there and you have to just keep looking as maybe one in ten is worth considering. For my boat what I had to do was determine how much I wanted to spend and keep looking in the price range. I found what I wanted, but did not have a anyone along to take a dispassionate good look at the boat. I missed a retracting keel that needed fiberglass work, it did not move up and down as it should. Also, I missed where water had frozen and caused some cracks in the fiberglass floor. I fixed both myself but if I had slowed up and put about 30 minutes more into the inspection, I probably would not have bought the boat. My point is you need a surveyor to keep you honest about the boatís condition and that if you keep looking, you will find one that either needs a little fixing up but is basically sound where the owner lost interest, or one that is just spotless and the owner has to get out for some financial reason, but an any rate the boat is a good one.

There are boats that have been kept up and ones that have been rebuilt, but it takes a lot of looking. Folks are saying thereís a lot of trash out there and that is correct, but with a careful inspection, I think GG will find her boat. She probably will have to spend a bit more for one in good condition but itís best to have someone else spend all the money it takes to get it right. The boating market did the same thing as the housing market only worse so some people put a lot of money into a boat to fix it up and now there is no way to get that money back. GG has said she wants a boat that is already fixed up so I think she knows what she is doing; she has seen it in the housing market. Right now the stock market is where the money is and some of these folks are looking for that spotless boat, the party dock queen, but thatís not what GG wants. The motor sailor is out of fashion and the trawlers she is looking at are not flashy so she is avoiding that competition.
I'm sure I'll find the boat. I just have to keep at it. I can always go to Plan B, which I'm not keen on, which would be to grab a cheap coastal Hat for a couple years of learning, then upgrade later. But, for now I'm going to keep looking.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:00 PM   #96
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GG, I really like the lines of that boat in the pacific, maybe not the old equipment. Maybe it's time to talk to someone like Custom Steel Boats in NC. The Flowers have been building in steel for a long time. Maybe show Rodney Flowers a picture of what you want, I'm pretty sure he has a long list of Naval Archetics he works with. What have you got to lose? Could be interesting. I've never met the Flowers, just what I've read about them through boating publications.Larryw
Yeah that's a super idea. Gets the budget back up in the 3-4 million range. Or you can buy this used one, a beautiful local boat I am familiar with that has been on the market for awhile:

Planet Yacht - 65' Custom Steel Boats

A mill will probably take it, just guessing.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:14 PM   #97
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GG,
once you're a thousand miles from land, the size of you're bow is not going to matter much. I'm going to try to attach this photo I took a loooong time ago of the USS Intrepid just before the flight deck went under water. This ship is now moored in New York harbor if you happen to be in the area; stand on the flight deck and look down. then you will have an idea of what waves really look like. My ship was 150' away from the Intrepid when I took this photo. Our bow was 35' up and we went completely under. This was a nice sunny day; it was not a storm
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:52 PM   #98
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Plan B

I have been watching this boat for a while now. I could potentially buy this as a Plan B and buy something more seaworthy later.
I know that the popular opinion, and for very good reason, is to stay local, but anyhow, I'm still going to ask the question.

Do you guys think there would be any way/chance of getting this boat to the East coast on her own bottom?

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

...at least it's glass
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:21 PM   #99
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Wouldn't the more appropriate question be, if it can make it to the East Coast on its own bottom why buy a more seaworthy one later?

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Old 03-18-2013, 09:22 PM   #100
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Greetings,
The tank-age listed is somewhat ambiguous...For $175K ship it but keep in mind it will be wired to European electrical...+$$$.
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