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Old 10-07-2016, 07:25 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
The small boats are what feed the family while they wait for the big sale.

For those who have such a disdain for brokers and have shown it here, so much that many here would not want them as a client, I give this warning. Your opinion of brokers is a self fulfilling prophecy. You go in with that attitude and none of them will want to deal with you, and don't think for one moment you're masking it. Now, the only one you can change is yourself so I'd suggest thinking long and hard about how to work more pleasantly and effectively with brokers. The best way is still working with only one so you don't have to deal with those you don't like. You're choosing to punish them and yourself by sticking to your current methods of contacting selling broker after selling broker for years. The system isn't going to change.
BandB,

Well, here's a thought....
Why would a broker have distain for any client, as long as the client is reasonable? The vast majority of buyers are serious. While some of them will never buy a boat, most will. You just don't go out an spend a lot of time and money as a buyer looking at boats without "some" seriousness. Sure, it might take a few years, but the brokers job is to convince them to buy the brokers boat. That's sales and that's his job. If he fails to do that, then he's failed and makes nothing.

It's MUCH harder to find a good broker than it is a good buyer. Food for thought.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:55 PM   #62
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BandB,

Well, here's a thought....
Why would a broker have distain for any client, as long as the client is reasonable? The vast majority of buyers are serious. While some of them will never buy a boat, most will. You just don't go out an spend a lot of time and money as a buyer looking at boats without "some" seriousness. Sure, it might take a few years, but the brokers job is to convince them to buy the brokers boat. That's sales and that's his job. If he fails to do that, then he's failed and makes nothing.

It's MUCH harder to find a good broker than it is a good buyer. Food for thought.
Actually the vast majority of callers are not serious and emailers even less so. People look and call out of recreation. You tell me how many boats has the person starting this thread bought and how many brokers has he called in the last three years?

I didn't say a thing about broker's disdain, just about the attitude coming across to broker's and them then being dismissive. If you go in expecting all brokers to be bad, you'll not be disappointed. If you go in trying to build a relationship, it might just work. Labeling all brokers bad isn't fair and if anyone is having the experience that they've contacted dozens of brokers and all were bad then they need to reexamine what they're doing. Others find good brokers. Are they just lucky? I don't think so. I think it's preparation and approach.
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:28 PM   #63
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No, he's not the one missing the whole point.
You must have been at anchor when you posted that - with paid crew on board. Otherwise "Wifey" would have taken your internet connection away.
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:49 PM   #64
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If there's no pictures of the engine room there's a reason . ..... <snip>
Come on Kevin. You're smarter than this. You're in Sara Palin country - right?. Of course there's a reason ER pictures aren't included.

1. Broker is too stupid to know they are important because he sold real estate in his previous career - ever seen a picture of a home boiler set up in a real estate ad?

2. Broker sees something that "looks" bad - doesn't know what it is [because he is a dope] and doesn't post it.

3. The brokerage runs up to their data limit on YW or somewhere else and cuts the photos to save money.

4. They don't want YOU to buy the boat.

I would need Dave Letterman [God rest his soul] to complete a top ten here. But you do get the point.

BTW - Kevin I highly respect your knowledge on large Bayliners and their diesels / systems.

Out
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:57 PM   #65
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You must have been at anchor when you posted that - with paid crew on board. Otherwise "Wifey" would have taken your internet connection away.
Wifey B: I would have been much more harsh than him. Actually we were both laying in bed at the time, either watching the weather or maybe Beverly Hills Pawn. So, since I was accused of being asleep on the job I'll say AMEN to his post and to Pseudo man AMEN to his post as well. Hallelujah
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:02 PM   #66
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Actually the vast majority of callers are not serious and emailers even less so. People look and call out of recreation. You tell me how many boats has the person starting this thread bought and how many brokers has he called in the last three years?
I think that is 100% accurate. People might "think" to themselves that they are serious about buying a boat, but they are really not, at least not in what I would call a reasonable time frame from the standpoint of engaging a broker. They are dreaming. Or even if they are serious, their budget does not meet their dreams. That forces them to be "bargain hunters". Or they have other roadblocks (like a spouse, or ex spouse, or kids that need to be raised, etc...).

I cannot imagine being a broker specializing in the category of boats that many here on TF either own or aspire to own. There are allot of really good people that dream of a cruising lifestyle. Unfortunately for a variety of reasons that dream just will not come to fruition for a huge percentage of them.

A broker has to be able to separate the inquiry's and focus on people that he reasonably thinks are ready, willing, and able to buy a boat. Not just any boat, but a boat that will actually be able to be sold.

I cannot imagine the frustration that a broker goes through, having courted a buyer entirely through the process, only to have the boat exibit challenges at survey and the buyer back out. If I were a broker I would be hard pressed to even discuss some of the boats I have seen for sale out there, as he has to know or suspect that in the end, the boat will not meet the buyers expectations at survey. This has got to be a huge problem, even more so the older the boat, and the lower the price point of the boat.
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:28 PM   #67
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:37 PM   #68
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Wifey B: I would have been much more harsh than him. Actually we were both laying in bed at the time, either watching the weather or maybe Beverly Hills Pawn. So, since I was accused of being asleep on the job I'll say AMEN to his post and to Pseudo man AMEN to his post as well. Hallelujah
Thanks. That confirms safe and responsible operation.
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Old 10-08-2016, 12:36 AM   #69
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Wood,I don`t mind anyone expressing a different opinion, but why the sarcasm, flourishes of language, and smart talk.
It makes me question your opinion when I otherwise might not. Play the opinion, not the man(or woman), we`re not that kind of Forum.
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:28 AM   #70
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I think a good broker is like any 'in tune' salesman. They can readily tell a 'tire kicker' a long way off. Even if the 'tire kicker' doesn't think they are showing a tell.
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:47 AM   #71
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I think everybody here has made some good points, including those who think brokers are not worth the time of day.

My own story from this past spring. My wife and I have been following a boat on yacht world for A couple of years. We always thought it was beyond our reach because the price was so high. The boat did not sell and the seller kept lowering the price until we finally thought it had reached a reasonable range.

We called the broker in Florida and told him that we would like to come down and look at the boat but because of my wife's work schedule could not show up until Sunday. He's refused to show the boat on Sunday and would make no one available to show the boat on Sunday, even though we were driving 1000 miles to look at it.

Long story short we finally made it there to look at the boat and thought it still overpriced and made a lowball offer which was finally accepted. When we met the broker he could tell us very little about the equipment on the boat. I actually learned more from reading the ad and of course from going through the boat, stem to stern. This broker seemingly not interested in selling the boat even though he been on the market for well over two years.

We nearly did not make an offer because the broker was so offputting.

It was one of the worst purchasing experiences I have experienced. We are happy with the boat, we think we ended up with a good deal, but the broker was definitely not worth the time of day, and retrospect it was no surprise to me that the boat took so long to sell.

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Old 10-08-2016, 09:53 AM   #72
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I'm looking forward to retirement, selling the house and moving on. I've been actively shopping for a trawler type MV for over a year; traveled a couple of hundred miles to a look at a couple. Walked the docks in New England and been invited on a few for a look. I've got my matrix refined - must haves / nice to have / cost benefit / condition - budget.

Anyway, just got off the phone with "Chuck" and it was like talking to a drunk Pops Yacht salesman. The YW ad for this trawler is minimal [it is low priced and will have deck / core issues]. I sent an email 5 days ago with a serious list of questions - without response. I sent a follow-up tonight saying I know decks are soft - and he responded to give him a call. So I did.

His opening spiel how many current inquiries and lot's of fast talk.

When I asked him what the tankage is - he responded "diesel".
Water - Oh yea - steel also
Capacity - oh.........500 fuel water ummmm
Waste..... Don't know

It has a generator, right? Yes. Does it work? Yes. What is it - hours? Don't know.

I see an AC unit. What is the HVAC? - Two. Two what, reverse cycle, capacity? Yes.

I've just done a little more investigation on that brokerage and it doesn't look good for boat buyers.

So far - every broker I've spoken to is a moron. Granted, that's less than 15 in a universe of millions - so I can't paint the whole industry... AND brokers I've seen here look up front.

Maybe it's time for a buyer broker? Feasible @< $125,000 ?
Definitely. I think anyone buying a boat on the brokerage market should be working with a buyer broker. The listing broker's allegiance is to the seller. Your buyer broker should understand what you are looking for, provide good advice and do the leg work on any potential purchases.
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:59 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Gordon J View Post
I think everybody here has made some good points, including those who think brokers are not worth the time of day.

My own story from this past spring. My wife and I have been following a boat on yacht world for A couple of years. We always thought it was beyond our reach because the price was so high. The boat did not sell and the seller kept lowering the price until we finally thought it had reached a reasonable range.

We called the broker in Florida and told him that we would like to come down and look at the boat but because of my wife's work schedule could not show up until Sunday. He's refused to show the boat on Sunday and would make no one available to show the boat on Sunday, even though we were driving 1000 miles to look at it.

Long story short we finally made it there to look at the boat and thought it still overpriced and made a lowball offer which was finally accepted. When we met the broker he could tell us very little about the equipment on the boat. I actually learned more from reading the ad and of course from going through the boat, stem to stern. This broker seemingly not interested in selling the boat even though he been on the market for well over two years.

We nearly did not make an offer because the broker was so offputting.

It was one of the worst purchasing experiences I have experienced. We are happy with the boat, we think we ended up with a good deal, but the broker was definitely not worth the time of day, and retrospect it was no surprise to me that the boat took so long to sell.

Gordon
Shows why it didn't sell, perhaps. Looks like the seller did a poor job of selecting a broker. Another word of advice to sellers of houses or boats. After a certain period a broker may well stop pushing if they ever did. Change brokers after a reasonable time and lack of activity or communication.
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Old 10-08-2016, 11:31 AM   #74
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I have been reading this thread from the start, and have picked up a few good ideas. So I thought that I would just add my experience to the thread. Since my wife and I are in the market for a boat in the PNW, every time before we leave to go home we contact brokers that have boats that we are interested in to set up appointments to view the boats. Over the past two years we have meet as many good brokers as bad. The one thing that I have found is that there seems to be no standards in the PNW as far as how the brokers work. we have been told that we can't do this or that by some brokers, and others tell us that we can do this or that. The big thing that has been a concern, is that some brokers will not give us all the information about a boat, even though they admit that they have it, unless we sign a contract. While others will gladly give us what ever information they have. We will just walk away when the broker tells us that we have to sign a contract before he will give us the information, (even if it is a boat that we are very interested in) that we need to make an educated decision. It makes us feel like they are trying to hide things.
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Old 10-08-2016, 11:59 AM   #75
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We will just walk away when the broker tells us that we have to sign a contract before he will give us the information, (even if it is a boat that we are very interested in) that we need to make an educated decision. It makes us feel like they are trying to hide things.
Actually what they may be doing is trying to protect themselves against another broker claiming the sale. I understand your reluctance and it is fair to say it's not your job to regulate them. I am very familiar of a case in the PNW where a broker from FL put the entire deal together, negotiated with all parties, and then the seller/builder/shyster decided to have the buyer to an end run. Normally that is just accepted as a loss to a crook. However, the FL broker did sue and won the commission of around $280,000 plus all attorney's fees. It's not over that easy as the other parties tried to appeal (denied) and now it's a matter of collecting on a judgment which isn't all that easy sometimes. Now, the builder involved is no longer in business but the judgment wasn't against the builder, but against individuals.

The entire industry needs regulation. Still that won't eliminate the dishonest. Real estate is much better organized and the contracts better written. Only 2 states require a brokers license to sell a boat and the laws of one of those two states aren't that strong.
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