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Old 10-05-2016, 12:38 PM   #21
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Kevin Sanders above really put a nice bow around the package.

My experience selling real estate is not all that different from yachts after talking to a few brokers I respect over the years. "Buyers are liars and sellers are yellers" is a broad brush every suspect is painted with until you sit down and show me you're financially qualified to make a move. Until then it's not going to get much better for you.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:51 PM   #22
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Establish a relationship. That's the key to business. Relationships you build. You don't build one by calling with questions on one listing. You build one by discussing your needs and talking at length. They recognize those of you who call many brokers who have ads on YW. If you call on 20 boats then their odds even of making a sale to you becomes perhaps 2-3%. 2-3% of say $6k maximum is $120. Suddenly that's the likely potential value of your call. They treat it as such. They have limited time and are going to use it in the manner they figure will make them the most money. Give them requirements and then time to investigate a few. Point out those that have your initial interest but let them see what they can come up with.

By calling each one with a listing, you're treating them like salesmen, not brokers. i know the difference is subtle, but you're treating them more like the clerk in a store, just this store is online.

My father was a CPA. People called him all the time with questions. Strangers. His stock answer was, "I can't be sure without knowing more. If you'd like to come in and discuss it, I'll be glad to do so." If they said no, then fine. But, first, the likelihood of the answer to a question over the phone without all the facts, being accurate is very low. Second, he wasn't the newspaper tax advisor who answers a few questions in the paper.

I'm amazed sometimes at what I can get done, who I know to call or turn to in Fort Lauderdale having lived here only 4 years and traveled 2/3 of that time. However, it all started with one local relationship. We met her on our vacation flight to FLL, became friends, she became our realtor. When we decided to move here she was the only person in town we knew and we'd only known her one week. It becomes like the old Kevin Bacon six degrees of separation. Well, it all ties back to her.

A good broker knows everyone in the industry, knows how to get honest answers, knows a lot of history of boats and brokers, knows where to turn, knows shipyards and marinas. And knows how to find out what they don't know. You can either try to learn all they know, talk to all the people they would, or let them lead you to everything else.

Ask them up front how they'll help you. But they have a right to make sure you're going to buy through them and not go direct through another broker. The wise ones have contracts or agreements that they sign and they require you to sign.

I would expect the first call to include a lot of discussion of your needs, what you've seen and liked and disliked. Then a subsequent call should be about boats they've found and finding out how you feel about them.

There's a rule that is law in the securities industry, "Know your Customer". Well it's a great rule for anyone selling and especially for a boat broker. If they don't ask you any questions, then they probably are not the one and they probably don't consider you a real prospect.
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Old 10-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #23
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B&B your post above is dead on.

If I were to enter the market for a new boat... And if I were calling a broker I do not already know...

The first part of the conversation would be to qualify myself as a buyer. What I was looking for, what my intentions are, and how I would intend to pay for it.

Then...

I would ask about the example he had listed, but it would not be specific questions. I would ask the broker to tell me their impressions about the boat. Then I would ask the broker to tell me about anything that would make me unhappy when I saw the boat in person.

Then, if I liked what I heard, I would ask what his schedule looked like for an appointment on a specific day, so we could look over the boat.

My impression of many buyers of 30-60' boats, especially lower price point examples is that they do allot of internet searching, allot of calling, but don't do allot of in person looking at boats. When they do they are invariably disappointed.
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Old 10-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #24
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My experience selling real estate is not all that different from yachts after talking to a few brokers I respect over the years.
Boat sales is just like selling real estate with the possibility of drowning.
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:15 PM   #25
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Boat sales is just like selling real estate with the possibility of drowning.
Yep and nobody calls asking how many gallons the water heater holds or what brand of toilets come with it either.
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:29 PM   #26
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Also something I consider very important is the 'protocol' of a conversation. It applies to any conversation, but I find it more important on the phone. I have made my living on the phone for 22+ years.

1) I make sure to introduce myself with my full name.
2) I ask the name of the person with which I'm speaking. (If they told me, I apologize and ask again anyway. I feign that I'm verifying spelling or pronunciation).
3) I ask them if now is a good time for them to talk.
4) I explain a the reason for my call.
5) I send a follow-up E-mail thanking them for their time.

If I miss the person, I send an E-mail anyway. In it I ask them if there is a good time to arrange a time to discuss.

This seems like a lot, however it really only takes 1-2 minutes. What it does is show that you respect the other party and their time. It essentially shows consideration for the other person.

What I can say is, I don't have a hard time with people calling me back. I also don't have a hard time getting people to answer. My mobile marine mechanic is a good example. People tell me he doesn't answer his phone, or doesn't return calls.

He answers my calls or calls me back within 1-2 hours at the longest.

HINT: Treat that person like you would a good friend you're doing business with.
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:39 PM   #27
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Yep and nobody calls asking how many gallons the water heater holds or what brand of toilets come with it either.
Oh but realtors get some weird calls and questions and some scary people wanting to look. They get questions like "what color are the walls in the master bedroom?" and a realtor answers and they say "oh I'm not interested. I wanted blue." They don't grasp what is easily changed vs what is very expensive or impossible.

Now, one of the funniest was an artist whose exterior of her house was pink and some of the inside floor coverings and walls were very bad too. She made it clear that she wouldn't sell to anyone who didn't like the color and wanted to change it. The house sat on the market $30-40k below market. No one would look at it even. Finally a couple went in, figured they could have it perfect for $10k or so and bought it. They were the first to comprehend that the moment the house was theirs they could do anything they wanted. Needless to say a month later the artist was furious, went to an attorney who just laughed.
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:47 PM   #28
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^^ Reminds me of folks who attempt to dictate that the next boat owner must maintain the boat at the sellers standards. (I'm not going to sell it to someone who isn't going to take care of it 'this way'). I always laugh at that one.

I had a friend who bought a house because he liked the fridge. LMFAO!!!!
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Old 10-05-2016, 04:33 PM   #29
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^^ Reminds me of folks who attempt to dictate that the next boat owner must maintain the boat at the sellers standards. (I'm not going to sell it to someone who isn't going to take care of it 'this way'). I always laugh at that one.

I had a friend who bought a house because he liked the fridge. LMFAO!!!!
Or the guy who buys the house only if the seller will throw in the Weber grill which is 3 years old and only cost $200 new.
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Old 10-05-2016, 05:04 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=Shrew;486276]No offense, I would be put off by you as well. <snip

Fair enough. Not likely we'll become friends then. I have a low tolerance level for BS. And that's what this broker was dishing. My time is valuable too.

I had sent him an email requesting the information I asked on the phone. [And I didn't ask him how big the hot water heater is]

He didn't respond. I sent another email four days later asking if it was more convenient to call - and that I was aware there were likely deck issues due to staining apparent in some pictures. I also told him that might not be a deal killer for me. He immediately responded and said call anytime - so I did. That should tell you something abut the broker's motivation - or you're not paying attention.

I owned a Real Estate Brokerage for many years. At sometimes there were 10 or so agents working under my license. I brokered tens of millions of dollars worth of real estate both as a seller and buyer agent.

Thanks for the info on buyer broker. I think it's time to go in that direction.
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Old 10-05-2016, 08:35 PM   #31
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Maybe it's just me...... Brokers don't respond or when they do and they're trashed

................So far - every broker I've spoken to is a moron.
I would say it's just you. Perhaps you don't present yourself as a serious buyer, someone with cash or a loan in hand and ready to buy today or at least this month. You might be coming off as a "tire kicker", someone who is probably a waste of time for the broker.

"every broker I've spoken to is a moron" Not likely.
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Old 10-06-2016, 04:57 AM   #32
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No offense, I would be put off by you as well. You're opening gambit is "I know the decks are soft". My first thought would be 'Oh boy', then if I had 10 calls to return you would be number 11, after I slipped a call home in there as well.

Your first question "Tankage". Fuel, holding, water, material, state? What exactly are you asking?

Capacities: Out of the hundred boats on this guys register, he can't remember the specs for all of them. Maybe just ask for an updated spec. sheet. Same applies to hours on Genny.

You stated you saw an AC unit, then used the generic term for "Heating, Ventalation and Air Conditioning". Again, not clear on your question here.

Reverse Cycle: Now I'm thinking WTF?? Yes, two units (not avacado's) It's not a window unit.

Consider how you sound on the other end of the phone. These guys get a lot of looky-lou tire kickers. I would bet he had the same comments about you when he hung up the phone.
Well, shouldn't the broker know the details of the boat, and perhaps he should mention the soft deck early on? There's no reason that the broker should have all the specs on the boat when it lists it and be able to provide that to a seller on the first meeting.

Wouldn't you want to know those things if you're spending $xxxx?
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:57 AM   #33
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Well, shouldn't the broker know the details of the boat, and perhaps he should mention the soft deck early on? There's no reason that the broker should have all the specs on the boat when it lists it and be able to provide that to a seller on the first meeting.

Wouldn't you want to know those things if you're spending $xxxx?
The specs you asked for are all online for virtually every model of boat. The fact that you didn't know them perhaps suggested to the broker that you hadn't done any research at all and therefore were not serious.
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:01 AM   #34
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The specs you asked for are all online for virtually every model of boat. The fact that you didn't know them perhaps suggested to the broker that you hadn't done any research at all and therefore were not serious.
Yup. For when it was built 25 years ago. Imagine your surprise, having relied on manufacturer specs, inspecting the boat after a 400 mile trip to discover it no longer has 500 gallon fuel capacity because the tanks were replaced with 2 75 gallon tanks.
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:53 AM   #35
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The specs you asked for are all online for virtually every model of boat. The fact that you didn't know them perhaps suggested to the broker that you hadn't done any research at all and therefore were not serious.
I'm sure most do their homework, however, there's so many model changes and spec changes it's by far best if the broker gets it right from the seller and/or the manuals for that specific boat.

And, there's sure a thought to get things verified prior to a 500 mile trip to look.
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Old 10-06-2016, 12:31 PM   #36
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A broker is not a surveyor, 2 separate professional skill sets. If traveling 500(or whatever distance)miles to see a boat represents a hardship hire a local surveyor to give it a quick once over to answer your questions. One can likely source that service for less than the cost of a plane ticket.
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Old 10-06-2016, 01:00 PM   #37
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I am of the opinion that if you don't understand how boats and their systems are put together you shouldn't own one. If you are reliant on salespeople and mechanics to keep your dream afloat you are most likely going to have some nasty experiences.

When I'm in the hunt I learn EVERYTHING there is to learn about the model I am after. Of course I will have surveys, bank and insurance require it after all, but for myself it is only a confirmation of what I already know from my own inspections.

When I call a broker I ask only "Tell me about this boat"..... After 30 seconds I can tell whether I would want to do business with this broker or not.

But, to each his/her own. What works for me may not work for you.
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Old 10-06-2016, 01:29 PM   #38
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If a broker does not have time, or willingness, to answer detailed questions; what is the broker for? Just to please the seller, I guess.
All brokers want to make money. I see no problem there. I still believe, brokers should not discriminate to 'tirekickers, webbrowsers,' Why is it such a negative status? Just because I am good at web browsing and I wish to benefit from the technology, is it a bad thing?
Yes, I am a deal hunter and a low budget wannabe. So what? I still work hard for the money. Why I am treated differently? Hmm, let me think.... Could it be the bottom line? My 100K budget obviously is no comparison to the 1-5 million buyers's. I am not naive. But what happened to the ' good business practices '? Every customer should be welcomed, poor or wealthy. But again, a commission on a million dollar boat pays more bills at home. Got it.
I have a suggestion; Full Discloser method. Put all the important details on the web listing. Why do I need to do detective work to find out the items I am interested in, when searching for a boat? Why waste each other's time? I think I know why? The seller/broker has the hope that a dummy buyer comes along and buys the boat. Why do I feel this way? Well, this is the fourth time I went to see a boat with high hopes and interests, but had to walk away. Important details were not disclosed, which was a deal breaker. Please, don't start this ' cheap buyer ' accusations. I had my loan pre-approved, I had the 10% in my checkbook, I had the mooring figured out, even the surveyors and insurance agent have given me the necessary numbers. So, I consider myself as a ready buyer. Of course, some buyers do not care about and old iron tank, or a crawl space ER, because they just outsource the maintenance. I want to be a DIY, as much I can. So, if I could see the ER pictures, tank info, consumption numbers, leaking windows, etc. I could just not bother the ' busy and seller committed broker ' with my annoying questions, over the phone or during my visit. I could save hundreds of miles driving, taking time off from work, using less gasoline. If I am such an annoyance, ' not worth the time ' type of ' tirekicker, webbrowser ', it is very easy to avoid me. Put out all the information out and I will not bother you. We both can move on.
Technology could benefit everybody, even the old-timers. I have used the YW 5 times already, to contact a broker for info, but only one replied. If the brokers feel that they are just wasting their time with me, because I am cheap and a deal hunter; why cannot they just reply to my email request? There is nothing cheaper and quicker than an email. Most of the brokers prefer a phone call. I wonder why? Is talking over the phone is a more persuading tool? They hate technology, or afraid to use it? Looks better on the resume to see a long list of phone calls on the monthly bill?
I could go on with more brilliant questions and ideas, but I don't want to hurt feelings too much. All I wanted to say, please respect us ' low-budget ' seekers, too. We also work hard for that little money.
Or, just put out a list on your web page, regarding to what is it that you are willing to do and for how much, to a low-budget guy like me? Strait talk is always better.
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Old 10-06-2016, 04:11 PM   #39
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utazo89,

Totally agree. I don't know why it's so hard for a broker to get the info and pass it on. Does he really thing that there are such dumb buyers that don't need to know?

Also, one thing to think about.... the brokers fiduciary responsibly is to the seller (unless you hire him).

Now there's sure some good ones out there, but like in real estate, and used cars not easy to find them.
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:31 PM   #40
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you guys still just don't get it with your questions to the brokers. Think about it like this probably everything the broker knows about a certain boat is in the listing.

The only other thing the brokers going to know about the boat is this general impression of it as he did a walk-through. He might know something about the owner or the boats history, but the specific stuff like whether the generator has 1000 or 1025 hours on it he doesn't know and it really doesn't matter anyway to someone who's really going to buy a boat. Seriously do you really care whether the fuel tanks have 375 gallons or 389 gallons each capacity? We both know that is not going to affect your decision to buy the boat.

So you've got 100 grand to spend on a boat. That's a lot of money. You've obviously made some good decisions in life. You saved hard and have done pretty well. The problem is in the world of cruiser size boat boats a hundred thousand dollars is not a lot of money, I'm sorry but it's actually a really small amount of money if you're looking at boats in the 40 to 50 foot range. You can believe me when I tell you how surprised I was and how much big boats really cost.

Then the other issue you have to look at it when you're on your world and you see a listing with very little information especially in older boat the boat is probably a dog. The simple fact is that when an owner comes in the list his boat if it's a nice boat it's been well-maintained the guys gonna have all kinds information to give to the broker. It's the POS boats were a guy or his widow or state comes in with very little information.

Also when you look at listings, the only and I'm gonna repeat that the only real bargains out there are brand-new listings. If the boat has been listed for a while especially a lower price boat there's a reason it has not sold.
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