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Old 11-18-2012, 07:57 PM   #1
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marinetrader vs. defever

which one is best for short trips offshore and range?
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #2
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A similar question is "how long is a piece of string?"

Based solely on the reputations of both vessels I would be inclined to take the deFever every time unless the deFever was built by a less-than-upstanding yard.

But far more important than the brand name are the characteristics-- hull design, handling and ride in the conditions you are likely to encounter, boat layout and equipment, type of power, and on and on and on.

It may be that neither a Marine Trader or a deFever is suitable for offshore work of the type you are contemplating. DeFever drew a lot of designs. Which one are you talking about? American Marine's Alaskan series of 45' to 50-something foot boats mostly used a deFever design. Tony Fleming used a deFever design as the basis for his Fleming series of boats.

So I think there are lots and lots of variables to be determined before one can say this design is better than that design for doing such-and-such.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:36 PM   #3
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Marin,

Thanks for the great pictures posted over the years.

I know how long the string is, but Iím keeping that info to myself.

bfloyd4445 -

My best to you, but you donít know what you donít know.

Go here - T&T list and start reading. Pick a month. Youíll learn a lot

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Old 11-18-2012, 09:04 PM   #4
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I bought my Defever 49 RPH up to Vancouver a couple years ago. It managed the task very well. Of course it was not a 40.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #5
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i'm not contemplating running over to the east for sushi just going offshore for day long fishing trips or occasional costal trips up too, or down too, better gunkholing waters like the sound or the delta of central ca.
I keep getting stuck on the defever 40 since i looked at one in Anatores the other day. They seem solid as rocks and available. Going to southern california after turkey day to look at a 41 and a 40 passagemaker. I love GB's but the wet ride comments led me to consider other options and then a Defever sunk her teeth in me<smile>
Still love the GB 32 but havent found any good ones at a reasonable price.
Read about a defever 40 going round the horn today which kinda proves her seaworthyness i think.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:12 PM   #6
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thanks Sceptic
my knowledge is kinda retarded regarding trawlers. Guys like you and Marin have taught me much the last month and i thank you all.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:47 PM   #7
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When you buy a 20 or 30 year old boat the previous 2 or 3 owners are at least as important as who drew the lines. Use the search function; read the archives.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:56 PM   #8
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When you buy a 20 or 30 year old boat the previous 2 or 3 owners are at least as important as who drew the lines. Use the search function; read the archives.
ahhhh......never thought of that. Guess that also goes for a 35 year old boat....geezz thats old
How do i find past owners of the boat?
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:05 PM   #9
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If the boat was documented there will be a record (USCG) of who the previous owners were. If the boat was not documented but simply registered in a state there will be no easily-searchable record of ownership.

And Bob has made an extremely important point. Whether you're talking about the boat in general or it's propulsion system, how they were treated by the previous owners has a WAY greater impact on that boat's condition than who made it in the first place. I've seen "ancient" Grand Banks woodies that were near new or even better than new condition and relatively recent fiberglass GBs that were in really bad shape. They all start out equal at the factory. What they are like ten, twenty, thirty, or more years later is totally the result of who's owned them.

Granted, design and construction, the quality of the materials, and how it was all put together will have an impact on how well the boat holds up under regular use or abuse, care or neglect. But by the time we, as used boat buyers come along, how the engines were operated and maintained is more important than the number of hours on them, and how diligent past owners were in fixing leaking windows and decks is more important than how those windows were fitted at the factory or how the decks were made.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:11 PM   #10
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Greetings,
Mr. 4445. Sorry, the fact a Defever 40 rounded Cape Horn proves or suggests nothing regarding seaworthiness which in itself is such a vague term it's pretty well meaningless.
A boat made a passage under a certain set of weather conditions and did so successfully. That's ALL!
Defever is a fine boat and suitable for a wide variety of use by a broad spectrum of boaters.
Determine WHAT you want to do with a boat, list your likes and preferences (layout, power options, berths etc.). Go with Mr. Marin's advice....
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:17 PM   #11
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I'd take it a step further Bob. I gave up looking at brand names all together. Condition is what I look for exclusively.

Nothing is more expensive than a big, cheaply priced boat.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:18 PM   #12
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Thanks Marin. I'm the kind that cant stand to let something go that needs looked at and since 1976 i have always used synthetic lubricants and when i sell a car boat its usually spoken for before i advertise it for sale. I've been lucky i guess. The wrost time i had with a boat sale was a less than a year old bayliner that i bought new then didnt like it. The guy i sold it to in 1987 became a close friend to this day but the boat was junked in 2006 It had at least three zillion hours on it cause he took in partners and it was run everyday just about for years on beer drinking legal discussion cruises....The partners were all lawyers.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:21 PM   #13
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I'd take it a step further Bob. I gave up looking at brand names all together. Condition is what I look for exclusively.

Nothing is more expensive than a big, cheaply priced boat.
...thats for sure. No, i have no desire to own anything made in certain eastern countries so i would exclude them. I have been looking at several diferent boats all seem to be DeFever or GB clones. The DeFevers for the most part are made here in the west and i like that
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:23 PM   #14
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Nothing is more expensive than a big, cheaply priced boat.
Which is a nice alternative to the advice, "Buy the smallest boat you can afford." By which is meant that for x-amount of money, the smaller a boat you buy the better shape or newer it will be, which generally amounts to the same thing.

You don't want to buy a boat that's too small for what you want to do, of course. But all else being equal including the price, the smaller the boat, the better shape it will be in and the less it will cost you to start using it and maintain it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:42 PM   #15
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Which is a nice alternative to the advice, "Buy the smallest boat you can afford." By which is meant that for x-amount of money, the smaller a boat you buy the better shape or newer it will be, which generally amounts to the same thing.

You don't want to buy a boat that's too small for what you want to do, of course. But all else being equal including the price, the smaller the boat, the better shape it will be in and the less it will cost you to start using it and maintain it.
well not exactly. There are those out there that havelearned to make a living doing shoddy repairs that look bristol to cover up defects. A good surveyor is a must in any purchase in my opinion. Am i correct?
anyway, these shoddy workmen are what i fear most in the purchase of a boat. Example: I 1973 frb GB 36 i looked at for sale by owner. He bought it with blisters so made the repairs himself. He said he opened up the blisters then filled them with an epoxy filler before applying some paint he purchased off the back of a truck cheap that was supposed to be military marine bottom paint used on battle ships. He was honest about what he did i think but no way i would buy that boat unless it was at a low enough price so i could strip the bottom and then properly redo the bottom. He also used it as a live aboard for several years and never moved the boat much. Bottom had not been looked at in 8 years since the last repair and the same fuel was still in the tanks cause she uses so little he hasnt had to put any in

whew, i aint no writer am i Marin<smile>
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
...thats for sure. No, i have no desire to own anything made in certain eastern countries so i would exclude them. I have been looking at several diferent boats all seem to be DeFever or GB clones. The DeFevers for the most part are made here in the west and i like that
Might want to do some research on where the vast majority of grp DeFevers were made.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:16 PM   #17
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Might want to do some research on where the vast majority of grp DeFevers were made.
The ones i have looked at were made in southern californai. santa ana or costa measa i believe.

and u can be sure i will look into that for each boat cause some were made in the orient.
thanks. I'm retired and when i spend my boat money i won't be able to replace it so i want to cross all the T's and dot the i's
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:30 AM   #18
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bfloyd,
I currently own a DeFever 48 and my last boat was a Marine Trader 36 Sedan that I sold last year after 6 years of ownership. Prior to those was an Albin. I have put thousand of miles on both and know a bit about the lines. I sent you a PM earlier. If you would like to discuss give me a call. I can't type all that I know.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:07 AM   #19
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I could be dead wrong but I've always been under the impression that deFever was a designer but not a builder. So deFever designs were built by all manner of yards, from a handful of steel-hull, wood topsides versions built in Mexico to wood boats built by American Marine in Kowloon (Alaskans) to glass boats built in Taiwan and the US.

So unlike Grand Banks or Bayliner or Uniflite or Nordic Tug and other production boats built entirely by the parent company deFevers seem to be somewhat at the mervcy of whatever yard chose to contract for or license the design.

Again, I may well be wrong on this.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
I could be dead wrong but I've always been under the impression that deFever was a designer but not a builder. So deFever designs were built by all manner of yards, from a handful of steel-hull, wood topsides versions built in Mexico to wood boats built by American Marine in Kowloon (Alaskans) to glass boats built in Taiwan and the US.

So unlike Grand Banks or Bayliner or Uniflite or Nordic Tug and other production boats built entirely by the parent company deFevers seem to be somewhat at the mervcy of whatever yard chose to contract for or license the design.

Again, I may well be wrong on this.
I believe you are correct. Which is one of the difficulties is coming to grips with the different models, some of which are better than others. Quality can vary, depending on the yard that built them.
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