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Old 08-02-2016, 07:15 AM   #81
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............ Till now my primairy brand was Garmin, because of their bussiness model i changed over to an other brand and believe me in the sailing community i am not the only one who think this way.
If you choose the products you buy based on the manufacturer's "business model", rather than features, functionality and value, you are a fool.

Either that or you're just posting BS to impress someone.
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:38 AM   #82
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If you choose the products you buy based on the manufacturer's "business model", rather than features, functionality and value, you are a fool.

Either that or you're just posting BS to impress someone.
Might be the difference between you and me.

Your last sentence say enough....
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:02 AM   #83
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Semi-I happen to find your comments more than "inappropriate", I find them offensive. It seems your chief complaint is that some of your favorite boating areas are now much busier than before, thus affecting your enjoyment of those areas. Somehow, that is the result of too much information easily getting into apparently undeserving hands through technology as represented by Jeff and AC. First, I don't recall Jeff ever saying he does not make money from his development of AC. I would be highly disappointed in his business acumen if he did not. What he has said is that there is no direct cost to you or me, or any user of AC. And that is indisputable-I downloaded AC, have used it pretty much since it first came out, and it has never asked me for a credit card #. So, yeah, some marine company of some kind may pay Jeff for something related to AC, and in some way shape or form, that small piece may end up as an indirect cost of some service or product I buy. Is it material? Does it really make any difference to me whatsoever? No.

It costs jobs? Technology has "cost" jobs since the earliest hominid figured out how to lash two poles together so it only took two guys, rather than four, to haul a Mammoth hindquarter home to the lady of the cave. Man tends to figure it out over time, new jobs replace old ones. As I write this, I am sitting in a nice room in my favorite hotel in D.C. I look around and there are two double beds rather than just the one I need. There is a big screen cable TV, but I watch all I want on my computer. There is a mini-bar refrig I don't use, cost maybe $1,000. There are towek sets for 6 in the bathroom. There is a guy in a palace guard uniform with 8 brass buttons to open to door for me. I don't need any of that. Why is all that indirect cost in the room rate I pay? And it is the same with every single dollar you spend, every single thing you buy. Some indirect costs that do not benefit you directly are included in what you pay. And you want the real kicker? I had a hard time getting a room here, had to actually ask for a favor. Why? Because I see a lot of folks here who never heard of this hotel until they got a laptop and discovered Travelocity or Expedia. And now my favorite little place in DC is crowded. Damn! But my brother, a senior exec in the company that owns it, seems to be just fine with it. Wonder why?

You should get over it and find a better target for your misplaced anger.
Naw, you're not offended, you're just looking for a way to discredit.....which, by the way, greatly offends me.

I never said AC charges directly. But you tried to imply that I did...

Jeffrey made a remark in an earlier post as to how it's about the challenge more than the money and he specifically stated that there is no cost at all to me for AC and the like. That is incorrect.

I said information services have contributed greatly to the dumbing down of the boating environment. The Niagra Falls, effect on formerly nice small towns. That is indisputable in the area where we boat. Maybe not so much in big cities. I didn't say the recent hoards are unworthy, but it is obvious from the changes in the towns that the tourist interests are different than from ten years ago. No, I don't care for what this phenomena has left in its wake...and not just in boating.

No, the information revolution has not created new jobs for those who are displaced. They're on unemployment or working at hamburger joints.

Thanks for the long tutorial as to how AC and the rest of the information world make their money...but it's unnecessary...I get it.

What you use shows up as a direct cost to me through higher slip fees, parts costs, etc. You're quite happy with that. No, I don't send AC a check, but I do send them a user fee through hidden channels. You got that right. No, that's not OK with me, and no I will not "get over it". I'd much prefer that AC and the like charge you a fee. But that's not how the strategy works. Users (and that is exactly the correct word) get subsidized by the rest of us.

You got your hotel room through nepotism.
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:24 AM   #84
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This thread has taken a serious detour. It certainly appears that there are some here who harbor some strong feelings regarding industry growth, social media tools, entrepreneurship, government economic numbers, capitalism, etc... It is unfortunate in some way when "others" invade our locations, activities, or organizations because it does change things. However, it helps if try to concentrate on the positive changes rather than dwell on the negative.

Reminds me of a couple decades ago when Washington and Oregon experienced a Californian invasion. Lots of money came North and created economic and social disruption. It seemed the folks that had the most trouble with it were the folks from CA that arrived just a few years earlier. They were unhappy that they were followed by their former neighbors who "ruined" the PNW.

Anyway, this may be a subject where we can just allow disagreement and let the subject lie without rancor.
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:38 AM   #85
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I hope this discussion waked some people that are using all these "gadgets" at the end all recreation boaters pay the costs of all this, Jeffrey for sure calls this progress.
I sort of think you're the only one who sees it that way.

I just lived another example of how tech saves money. I'm having some dentist visits while we're refitting Red Head. So to my surprise, here in little Deltaville, VA, the dentist send you a text message 2 days prior to your appointment. You reply to that with a "C" or "Confirm" telling them that everything is still good. I love the idea of that.

Surely such a technological system tied into their appointments must have cost so much that their prices have gone through the roof, right?

Well, of course not.

While the system did add some cost, they found that 25% of people remembered about their appointments and didn't cancel/no show/etc so they more than made up for the cost of the software. In fact, it pays for itself in the first month, according to the dentist who loves talking tech with me in the chair.

They could have also put a staff member on the phone calling each person. In fact, unanswered text's do get a personal call. But the added expense of calling everyone way overshadowed the cost of the software add-on.

Of course that's how it works. Tech is implemented to save money or make more money in other ways. It always has and it always will...
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:46 AM   #86
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What you use shows up as a direct cost to me through higher slip fees, parts costs, etc.
I've given a handful of examples showing how, in fact, that doesn't happen anywhere with technology. I'm deeply involved with the business, finance, and planning of many marinas. The only time I've seen a slip price increase is when a marina severely discounted their slips because it was a crummy place that no visited. There are places we've helped - we told them what to spend money on and how to behave (it's a shame we have to do that some times). Lo and behold, business picks up. The marina starts getting filled so they increase their rates because the previous discounts are no longer needed.

I don't see that as a problem. I think that's win-win.

So can you provide any example where some type of technology was added at a marina and used by everyone else that resulted in slip prices increasing for you?

(I can't wait to hear this one...)
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:58 AM   #87
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...............I don't see that as a problem. I think that's win-win.........
Only for you, as we boaters pay your income....

Jeffrey, why does you not admit that it doesn't interrest you a sh#t who pay the bill aslong as you has your income..
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:02 AM   #88
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dhays,


Be careful about making assumptions regarding political or business leanings as you would more than likely get it wrong.

Why is it OK to force non-users to subsidize your use of sites like AC? Why not pay your own way?

I saw a news piece that Portland is planning to enact a tax (maybe already done) to discourage "outsiders" from purchasing property in the city.


Reiziger,


There is a reason for burying the cost as opposed to a direct user fee. It co-ops everyone who owns a boat...not just the ones who would be paying for a membership on the web site. Much wider net...potential for far more income.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:06 AM   #89
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Only for you, as we boaters pay your income....

Jeffrey, why does you not admit that it doesn't interrest you a sh#t who pay the bill aslong as you has your income..
Again, answer my question. Show me how you pay. Give me just one example in real life.

We turn down a lot of income every day. Believe it or not, ActiveCaptain wasn't done to generate income. It just wasn't. We funded the company personally although it easily pays for itself today. It's one of the reasons why we were incredibly hard to compete against. We had the luxury of trying to do things right instead of satisfying some money or investor need.

You're just so angry - and I'm done answering your quips. You're just wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:12 AM   #90
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In Connecticut!
We just recently made our first reservation using a service.
They are called Dockwa. I e-mailed them with our dates for Martha’s Vineyard, 12 hours later we were confirmed within 12 hours and we received an
e-mail. How easy is that
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #91
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In Connecticut!
We just recently made our first reservation using a service.
They are called Dockwa. I e-mailed them with our dates for Martha’s Vineyard, 12 hours later we were confirmed within 12 hours and we received an
e-mail. How easy is that
Paul
Only easy if the slips confirmed can really accommodate you and you are happy with them.

I think that was Ted's (OC Divers) original concern.

I know there are businesses that displace advertising from one medium to another, growing with tech and the net payment increase is probably zero or maybe a decrease in boating related costs. While the old ad medium loses money or jobs...well...what are you ganja do?

It doesn't cost me anything out of pocket (directly)...so why do I care?

On that note, I would love to see the political, economic and social discussion run (not walk) to the OTDE....as real boating issues are argued enough.

Anyone here that thinks AC or the electronic waterway guide or Southern Boating website, etc...etc..is a bad thing...may your next flight be on a reciprocating engine aircraft, with LORAN as a backup nav instrument and a drunk pilot...those are all from the good old days...have at them...In.the OTDE.....
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:11 PM   #92
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Only easy if the slips confirmed can really accommodate you and you are happy with them.

I think that was Ted's (OC Divers) original concern.

I know there are businesses that displace advertising from one medium to another, growing with tech and the net payment increase is probably zero or maybe a decrease in boating related costs. While the old ad medium loses money or jobs...well...what are you ganja do?

It doesn't cost me anything out of pocket (directly)...so why do I care?

On that note, I would love to see the political, economic and social discussion run (not walk) to the OTDE....as real boating issues are argued enough.

Anyone here that thinks AC or the electronic waterway guide or Southern Boating website, etc...etc..is a bad thing...may your next flight be on a reciprocating engine aircraft, with LORAN as a backup nav instrument and a drunk pilot...those are all from the good old days...have at them...In.the OTDE.....


Two weeks ago I booked a room in Ottawa through one of the on-line services. A few days into our stay we were having a beer with some folks at the bar. Got to discussing room rates. They called the hotel directly and booked a package deal. Rate for equivalent room was far less than what we paid. Never again...I will always call the hotel direct.


You just added to the economic, social and business discussion and then promptly recommended moving it to ODTE. I recommended moving it o the Commercial Market section a long time ago. That is what this is about. This vendor clearly doesn't want it moved there.


If I want a cruising guide I pay for it. So should you.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:21 PM   #93
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:31 PM   #94
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.....:
Down to ridicule and insult, are we? Not nice.

By the way, it's interesting that the big proponents of this "freebee" are mostly cruisers. The mom and pops who hang out at the marina and do local day cruises aren't really represented....and they get to subsidize those who use the product.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:48 PM   #95
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Examples of technology improvements that digs deep into consumers pockets.
TV service, telephone service, internet service. The providers now have us and they are having their way with us. I know, I know, I have the choice to go off the grid!
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:52 PM   #96
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So can you provide any example where some type of technology was added at a marina and used by everyone else that resulted in slip prices increasing for you?

(I can't wait to hear this one...)
Must we?
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:54 PM   #97
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Down to ridicule and insult, are we? Not nice.
.
Wifey B: Smilies are insults now? Omg I didn't know....
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:56 PM   #98
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So much rancor is unseemly on this forum. Jeffery and Karen have revolutionized how I cruise. I don't find my anchorages any more crowded, I love access to other cruisers reviews, I have found new anchorages with the help of AC, I've booked and cancelled successfully and seamlessly with Dockwa, I run my online business as a full time cruiser, I have a modern anchor, I pick and choose my websites and I'm glad they are there for me to choose from. If it costs me a bit more, to have access to all these great tools, and I haven't seen that happen, I'm happy to pay for it. If Jeffery and Karen profit handsomely from their endeavors they fully deserve it. If their efforts weren't helpful to us cruisers their business would have failed.

I think the nattering nabobs of negativism should take a break and walk to the corner pharmacy to have their Kodachrome 's developed. Probably 2 good photos in a roll of 36. But then who needs technology? Now I'm heading below to use my cell phone.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:57 PM   #99
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Wifey B: On topic. The question is will you use the system. Requires no editorial and only two answers, "Yes" or "No".

My answer is NO
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Old 08-02-2016, 01:02 PM   #100
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Semi-you might find yourself out of $$ again if you rely only on calling hotels direct. All chain companies (and many independent properties) now use "Load management software" to manage room rate yields. Local property management has little to no ability to override the software. So, if you call and book during a period the software anticipates high need, you will not only not get a lower rate than other sources, you may well get a higher rate. Just another example for you to cite about technology hitting you in the pocketbook! As I recall from Macro Econ 101 many, many years ago, it is called "supply and demand."
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