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Old 02-17-2019, 09:36 AM   #21
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This yard does not do repair work of this type, it's more of a do it yourself place. at this point I can store 1hr closer to home for the same cost, but its hard to work on my boats locally, seems that once everyone knows where I am I can't get stuff done although its great for business.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:53 AM   #22
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Is this a situation where you could negotiate with the yard on the repairs? If they are able to do the work perhaps a 50% discount to you? Or 50/50 on a contractor? This would most likely be the cheapest and friendliest way to get your boat repaired.




The problem is no negation , I asked to split the bill & a break on storage billing. no reply from management until the Lady in the office contacted me last Thursday saying the owners said no.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:34 AM   #23
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I'd guess the yard is angry with themselves for not insisting that stored boats have proof of adequate insurance. Which begs the question, do other vessels banged up in this encounter have a potential claim against you.


If it were me I'd quietly tip toe away, get the right marine insurance and likewise protect your non marine assets with an umbrella policy.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:00 AM   #24
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good advice. my boat never moved in the storm. never though about being liable for the boat just being there, I'll have to check that one out . I store with the garboard plug open & move low laying bilge things like battery's & inverters up on the salon floor. My bilge flooded with no water damage except a macerator pump that I didn't want to fool with unless I had to.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:07 AM   #25
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What a mess we do create when we have no written agreements. Here's how I see it.

1. You purchased a boat but failed to insure it. You're lucky to have anything left, much less to only have a couple of thousand in damage.

2. Marina has no contracts, you had none, nothing clear at all about liability and obligation so defaults to laws and standards and only way to sort it out would be a lot of legal wrangling.

3. If you can hold anyone liable, it's the marina as they're the ones who contracted with the crane and they could then make a claim against the crane operator.

Sloppy way for all to do business. If Marina had to pay everything they potentially could be held responsible for or all the potential court cases then likely wouldn't survive. They have to say "no" to everyone including you. One more case of lousy land storage being no better, and often worse, in hurricanes than water storage.

You can't have it both ways now. Either you want to maintain relationship with the marina and are willing to just accept your loss or you want to fight it and move to another marina. But while you're placing blame and debating whether to place it with marina or crane operator, you really should be putting the majority on yourself. You had no insurance. You had no written agreement specifying yours or their responsibility. Now, you have a minor loss and they have major losses and you're surprised they're not willing to help with yours.

You also say you weren't contacted but did you contact them, did you go to the location, did you monitor what took place? Something tells me you were paying very little for land storage there but now you want to hold them to a very high standard. Can't work like that.

Accept your loss and move forward and don't repeat your mistakes.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Craig Schreck View Post
This yard does not do repair work of this type, it's more of a do it yourself place. at this point I can store 1hr closer to home for the same cost, but its hard to work on my boats locally, seems that once everyone knows where I am I can't get stuff done although its great for business.
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Is this a situation where you could negotiate with the yard on the repairs? If they are able to do the work perhaps a 50% discount to you? Or 50/50 on a contractor? This would most likely be the cheapest and friendliest way to get your boat repaired.




The problem is no negation , I asked to split the bill & a break on storage billing. no reply from management until the Lady in the office contacted me last Thursday saying the owners said no.
If the yard doesn't do the work, then you need to negotiate on services. Having been in retail store front business for myself, nobody likes to give away inventory which is perceived as an out or pocket expense that has to be replaced. Storage and haulout have little perception of cost (there is cost, but it's not immediate like taking inventory off the shelf).

The second part is that you need to negotiate with the owner. Imo, you can't be compelling through a person who obviously isn't on your side.

As land storage has the lowest percieved cost, I'd aim for half of your repair costs spread over 2 winters.

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Old 02-17-2019, 12:24 PM   #27
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Does the sailboat that was being lifted have insurance and is it responsible for the damage?
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:34 PM   #28
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What a mess we do create when we have no written agreements. Here's how I see it.

1. You purchased a boat but failed to insure it. You're lucky to have anything left, much less to only have a couple of thousand in damage.

2. Marina has no contracts, you had none, nothing clear at all about liability and obligation so defaults to laws and standards and only way to sort it out would be a lot of legal wrangling.

3. If you can hold anyone liable, it's the marina as they're the ones who contracted with the crane and they could then make a claim against the crane operator.

Sloppy way for all to do business. If Marina had to pay everything they potentially could be held responsible for or all the potential court cases then likely wouldn't survive. They have to say "no" to everyone including you. One more case of lousy land storage being no better, and often worse, in hurricanes than water storage.

You can't have it both ways now. Either you want to maintain relationship with the marina and are willing to just accept your loss or you want to fight it and move to another marina. But while you're placing blame and debating whether to place it with marina or crane operator, you really should be putting the majority on yourself. You had no insurance. You had no written agreement specifying yours or their responsibility. Now, you have a minor loss and they have major losses and you're surprised they're not willing to help with yours.

You also say you weren't contacted but did you contact them, did you go to the location, did you monitor what took place? Something tells me you were paying very little for land storage there but now you want to hold them to a very high standard. Can't work like that.

Accept your loss and move forward and don't repeat your mistakes.

Excellent reply, the marina storage is in inline in pricing in this area & yes I was slack on buying insurance, if there wasn't the storm all I had to do was paint the bottom & launch planned for in October including insurance overboard, got caught short no doubt about it. I was there the day the roads opened, called every day and left several messages over time. didn't want to be a total pest. went back to the boat shortly after the first visit to find the damages from the clean up operation. My job requires a lot of my time so I feel I did my part the best I could. We offer emergency storm services for generators, a lot of them owned by utility company's. the storm backed us up 45 days.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:50 PM   #29
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[QUOTE=O C Diver;741823]If the yard doesn't do the work, then you need to negotiate on services. Having been in retail store front business for myself, nobody likes to give away inventory which is perceived as an out or pocket expense that has to be replaced. Storage and haulout have little perception of cost (there is cost, but it's not immediate like taking inventory off the shelf).

The second part is that you need to negotiate with the owner. Imo, you can't be compelling through a person who obviously isn't on your side.

As land storage has the lowest percieved cost, I'd aim for half of your repair costs spread over 2 winters.

Ted[/QUOTE


I was wanting to trade yard fees for outside repair costs so there was no cash exchange out of pocket on their part. we never really negotiated anything the yard manager won't return my calls. the boat was on their yard when I bought it after several years of non payment from the previous owner. I agree the owners should be involved I'm getting second hand info from office staff .
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:57 PM   #30
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Does the sailboat that was being lifted have insurance and is it responsible for the damage?

Good question,
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:02 PM   #31
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A reminder too that most places that haul for hurricanes or have yard storage do not have anything that in even the loosest definition can be called "Hurricane Storage." There are exceptions as fine yards, properly elevated, protected from the strongest winds, and with well anchored tie downs. However, most either lack the elevation or are extremely exposed to water and/or wind, or have boats just sat on supports but without true anchoring or have so many boats packed together that one can cause damage to dozens. This is a reminder to all that just because your boat is on land, doesn't mean it's protected. Then sadly this case shows risk even in the clean up. This was a yard banking on no significant hurricane or flood. In the event of a hurricane, the only hope was less damage than otherwise would have occurred. In that case, the OP's boat was a huge winner. A couple of thousand dollars worth of damage instead of total loss. It's like a boat in a slip that only has rubrail damage. Sometimes we need to accept and be grateful for our good luck and in this case the OP's luck was overwhelmingly good.

It's the glass half full or half empty question but in this case the glass is 98% full and only 2% empty. We all are quick to see our loss or suffering. Well, if you boat, you're exposed to storms. It's like driving cars and the risks there. If I'm in a wreck and my car totaled and I'm ok, then that's not bad luck, but the luckiest day of my life. Perhaps even praise to the marina that the boat was 98% ok. I think of all the other boats that were destroyed during Florence and all the homes.

And to the OP and his job of restoring generators and, in turn, power, just think of all those you helped by doing your job after the storm. We saw so much suffering from Florence and we didn't even reach the worst areas. We saw those rejoice when they got power back after a week while others waited much longer. I know how much many benefited by the work you did, just as I saw rescuers working in moderately impacted areas while unable to even reach their own homes.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:05 PM   #32
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Does the sailboat that was being lifted have insurance and is it responsible for the damage?
Highly unlikely it's responsible in the lifting (since it likely had nothing to do with contracting for it) while it would have been had it hit the other boat during the storm itself.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:24 PM   #33
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Move on. Yard said no. This situation is not a candidate for court. Case would be heard by a magistrate, not a judge. If there are no contracts, it would deteriorate into into a he said she said session. You blame yard, yard blames crane, crane blames sailboat.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:24 PM   #34
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A reminder too that most places that haul for hurricanes or have yard storage do not have anything that in even the loosest definition can be called "Hurricane Storage." There are exceptions as fine yards, properly elevated, protected from the strongest winds, and with well anchored tie downs. However, most either lack the elevation or are extremely exposed to water and/or wind, or have boats just sat on supports but without true anchoring or have so many boats packed together that one can cause damage to dozens. This is a reminder to all that just because your boat is on land, doesn't mean it's protected. Then sadly this case shows risk even in the clean up. This was a yard banking on no significant hurricane or flood. In the event of a hurricane, the only hope was less damage than otherwise would have occurred. In that case, the OP's boat was a huge winner. A couple of thousand dollars worth of damage instead of total loss. It's like a boat in a slip that only has rubrail damage. Sometimes we need to accept and be grateful for our good luck and in this case the OP's luck was overwhelmingly good.

It's the glass half full or half empty question but in this case the glass is 98% full and only 2% empty. We all are quick to see our loss or suffering. Well, if you boat, you're exposed to storms. It's like driving cars and the risks there. If I'm in a wreck and my car totaled and I'm ok, then that's not bad luck, but the luckiest day of my life. Perhaps even praise to the marina that the boat was 98% ok. I think of all the other boats that were destroyed during Florence and all the homes.

And to the OP and his job of restoring generators and, in turn, power, just think of all those you helped by doing your job after the storm. We saw so much suffering from Florence and we didn't even reach the worst areas. We saw those rejoice when they got power back after a week while others waited much longer. I know how much many benefited by the work you did, just as I saw rescuers working in moderately impacted areas while unable to even reach their own homes.

I see your point & when we arrived at the boat just after the storm I was truly amazed we survived without damage. took many pictures because it was pretty much a miracle . I guess my problem is had the boat suffered damage during the storm it would be easy to accept . but there is really no excuse for failure to protect property during marina operations 'a simple blanket over the rub rail would have solved this problem . I spent many years moving diesels through boat interiors without damage & if there was anything damaged we fixed it.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:34 PM   #35
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but there is really no excuse for failure to protect property during marina operations
I wasn't there to know what they faced or how much was going on. I'm sure there was a conflict between having adequate persons to supervise everything done vs. doing things as quickly as possible. I'm sure things were not managed up to their normal standards.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:10 PM   #36
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I wasn't there to know what they faced or how much was going on. I'm sure there was a conflict between having adequate persons to supervise everything done vs. doing things as quickly as possible. I'm sure things were not managed up to their normal standards.
work of this nature can't be rushed without potential damage. this was not a life or death situation. it was a simple clean up operation. I feel a professional crew run properly would have minimized the property damage. I would have liked to be there to protect my interests but wasn't given the opportunity. I had to rely of the professionalism of others to protect my property. there are other yards I do business with that I trust to handle this professionally. starting with communication skills.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:39 PM   #37
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work of this nature can't be rushed without potential damage. this was not a life or death situation. it was a simple clean up operation. I feel a professional crew run properly would have minimized the property damage. I would have liked to be there to protect my interests but wasn't given the opportunity. I had to rely of the professionalism of others to protect my property. there are other yards I do business with that I trust to handle this professionally. starting with communication skills.
They don't have experience with these things though or the type or size of crew.

Clearly they should have done things more professionally but that doesn't seem to be the kind of marina they are.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:56 PM   #38
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Perhaps look more to the crane company. In a number of states crane operations are subject to "strict liability".
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:08 PM   #39
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Perhaps look more to the crane company. In a number of states crane operations are subject to "strict liability".

another good point thanks. at this time I would like to thank all who provided input, I may be slow but I do learn. I think I'm more disappointed in the way this is being handled than the costs involved. I also appreciate no one stating the marina by name .
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:20 PM   #40
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B & B got close to this. If they do a deal with you,and it gets known,it could open the floodgates to claims. Although yours is a distinguishable case of no storm but pure crane retrieval damage, unless they refuse all claims they could end up paying all claims. They can`t afford to do that, so they deny and avoid. Not pretty but there it is. Doesn`t sound like you were in the loop when they were arranging for owners to contribute to crane hire but if you were, it could mean a direct relationship with the crane operator, depending on the facts, which could help.
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