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Old 06-04-2014, 03:46 PM   #161
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This thread was originally about the government boarding your boat and introducing a substance into your boat's head. Is this a right we want to give to the government? Next they will be checking our homes for low flow shower heads and smoke detectors.

Good reason or not, I don't believe we should give up our rights to the government. There are existing laws. Enforce them but do it without compromising the rights of the citizens.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:48 PM   #162
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Amen brother!
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:55 PM   #163
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I would like to ask some questions to those who dump at the three mile zone, If you have easy access to a pump out station, why do you pump at sea ? is it because you can ? is it because you are lazy ? Is it because you don't care ? I am no tree hugger, pump out seems to be the right choice when available.
This is a good example of how someone can word a post so there is a hidden meaning without it being said. In this case the hidden meaning is that anyone who discharges waste legally at sea is somehow inferior to someone who doesn't. Lazy? Don't care? Because you can?

How about this - You are on a cruise from X to Y and your route takes you out to sea. It could be three miles, it could be twenty three miles out to sea.

Wouldn't it be pretty stupid to waste the time and fuel to come back to shore in the middle of your route to find a pumpout station? Wouldn't it be mare harmful to the environment burning the fossil fuel and emitting the extra hydrocarbons?

And Art, I'm having a hard time seeing you as the environmentalist you claim to be when you own and operate a boat that burns fossil fuel and takes you two and from places you don't need to go at probably two miles per gallon.

You really should have a sailboat with no auxiliary power. At least then you might have some credibility.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:55 PM   #164
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Earth, our house / home, has become overpopulated with humans; population increase continues.

During last few hundred years many societies have developed extremely useful and inventive ways to make life easier and, to even become fun on this planet; invention agenda continues.

Unfortunately for their citizens many societies have not been so inventive productive.

Due to overpopulation and many types of the inventions created we humans simply are overloading this “planet’s natural recycling system’s capabilities” that are contained in its ecosystem.

Pleasure boating topic on this thread regarding whether to dump-out into water or to pump-out untreated fecal matter into sewage treatment systems is only a small fraction of human-based requirements to hopefully stop overloading Earth’s ecosystem. BUT – reduction of untreated fecal matter in swimming waters Is A Part of the Clean-Up Agenda.

One of my businesses is heavily into cleaning the atmosphere. Boating to me at this stage of life is pure enjoyment... helps keep me sane!

Realizing the perilous ecosystemic conditions on our planet I feel it is best to “Pump-Out – Not – Dump-Out!

Just saying!

Happy Boating Daze! – Art

Have you ever traveled outside of our major cities? There is vast amounts of space..... in the future we will be 'printing' food, housing, and clothing. Hopefully we will re-invest into our aging nuclear power program. It's the cleanest source of energy we have. It's also capable of solving most problems that come with our increasing human population on the planet. So, we are just getting started, we'll continue to make room for everyone. The environmentalists just need to get out of our way with regards to nuclear power.
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:18 PM   #165
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For Crap Sake - What is the real problem here?

How can any sane person even contemplate if it is right or wrong to dump their untreated turds into ANY TYPE/AREA of localized salt or fresh waters???

FCS - Treat it / Pump-it-out / Or, go 3 miles off shore – IT’s JUST THAT SIMPLE!

NO RAW SEWAGE IN OUR WATERS – PERIOD, The End!

Centuries ago civilization had raw sewage flowing down street sides/curbs

Then out houses with holes dug into the ground

Then flush toilets that emptied into water ways or fields

Then cesspools to hide the flushed effluent

Then septic tanks with leach field systems to hide and ecologically distribute/dissipate all human wastes back into the soils

Then sewer systems to transport effluents out to sea

Then sewage recycling/aerating plants to reduce effluent toxicity and make the remaining water serviceable for vegetable watering and other commercial purposes, but, non drinkable

Soooo, human waste recycling is getting better and better via technological improvements – that includes caring for marine waste on pleasure boats! Therefore, there is simply no reason, excuse, or complainant (aside from extreme on board sewage emergency) that is good enough or important enough for any boater to be emitting raw, untreated human sewage into waterways. – Again, PERIOD!!

Next time any person on a boat dumps a little or a lot of raw, untreated black sewage into water – ask yourself – Am I crazy, or just too dumb to “sea” the reality of this putrid/dirty action?
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:39 PM   #166
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Oregone and Washington states provide this service for free and i believe it is a good use of the taxpayers money. The folks on the east coast should start demanding their states provide this great free service...
In NJ...they take the vast majority of funds raised by boating and boating taxes and spend it elsewhere...we can hardly get a decent, safe ramp every 20 miles or so and they are usually even without a porta pottie there to go on land.

In Florida...sometimes you have 3 great ones right in a row..... state, county and city...and pretty nice facilities too.

So how do you think demanding ANYTHING as a rich yacht owner comes across????
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:57 PM   #167
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I dump raw sewage from my vessel every day as a live aboard. Into the Fraser River here in the PNW. The science of such suggests that is the best practise here.

My point guys is that one solution will never fit all earthly locations.

So I disagree with your view / belief there Art.

I am not crazy / I am not dumb to the issues / poo is a natural part of life it is not putrid / or dirty , its just poo.

Holding for later disposal in places local like False creek , grace harbor , or close to aquiculture sure.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:04 PM   #168
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But is penalizing folks going to do anything except make them more stealth in their dumping? From my perspective, most laws and penalties are punitive on those that try to abide by the system, while those that are going to skirt it never have to abide by it at all. Seems the burden and costs land on those that mostly abide by the rules. Those same people that would have and are going to abide by the rules most of the time.

If everyone has dyed holding tanks, and you just pumped yours out, and a slip transient dumps his out at wee:30 in the morning just before leaving the slip for places north, south, east or west, and the dyed remnants remain next to your boat, who do you suppose gets ticketed? You're there, with an empty tank. Almost as bad as being found standing over the body, holding the weapon.

People have to care enough to make a difference. Laws just punish people, and often times it's the people trying to do right that get it in the end.
To me this is the coolest post of the whole thread...never gave the "leave the evidence for someone else to take the blame" before.....but pure genius!!!!

As usual...make a rule/procedure...and there's always thinking that can get around it....it will be a cold day in you know where before they start fingerprinting the dye...

Now here's an idea....maybe they might get cool and do red/white/blue dye and give each color to each boat in line so you "might" get caught cause the boats on either side have different colors.....yeah right....
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:09 PM   #169
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In NJ...they take the vast majority of funds raised by boating and boating taxes and spend it elsewhere...we can hardly get a decent, safe ramp every 20 miles or so and they are usually even without a porta pottie there to go on land.

In Florida...sometimes you have 3 great ones right in a row..... state, county and city...and pretty nice facilities too.

So how do you think demanding ANYTHING as a rich yacht owner comes across????
Well wish I was rich, so I wouldn't have to worry about being retired soon. But I get that some folks think we yacht owners are rich. Just living the dream my friend, just living the dream!

Quote:
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I dump raw sewage from my vessel every day as a live aboard. Into the Fraser River here in the PNW. The science of such suggests that is the best practise here.

My point guys is that one solution will never fit all earthly locations.

So I disagree with your view / belief there Art.

I am not crazy / I am not dumb to the issues / poo is a natural part of life it is not putrid / or dirty , its just poo.

Holding for later disposal in places local like False creek , grace harbor , or close to aquiculture sure.
Ah!! So now I now why Seattle is so up set! It's that Canuck poo!!!!
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:17 PM   #170
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CA has free pumpouts. There's one about 200' from my boat.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:20 PM   #171
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Washington state dumps more than enough toxins into Puget sound under EPA regulations , yet point fingers north ?

Maybe they should worry about there practises and let us worry about ours.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:44 PM   #172
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Art, you are ducking all the issues and questions. All you do is pontificate the same thing over and over. I get it, I think we all get it. Nobody is advocating boaters dumping raw sewage inside the legal distance.

Give it a break!
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:53 PM   #173
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Many societies need 3 children per couple to survive. Most nations are not meeting this criteria. The US barely makes it but most of Europe isn't even close.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:06 PM   #174
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...

When they potty train the seagulls, great blue herons, pelicans, seals and whales, then I'll know the EPA has done it's job. A blue whale poops as much as 5400 human poops a day. Go after them.
There is a lake here in NC, that has to close the swimming beaches in the summer because of contaminated water. The water is unsafe for swimming due to seagull poo.

Later,
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:08 PM   #175
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CA has free pumpouts. There's one about 200' from my boat.
Anyone out in California realize that most people don't live there and it AIN'T the center of the universe and many don't WANT it to be???????
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:11 PM   #176
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To get back on topic, exactly how many people here believe the government should have the power to come onto your boat uninvited and add dye to your boat's head?

Answer yes or no.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:18 PM   #177
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Yes ....and to check all other infractions TFers (including me) pontificate about all the time....
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:20 PM   #178
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No they have no business putting dye into my holding tank. The dye could potentially damage my waste treatment system. Whats to stop a person from putting a sleeve down the waste disposal port and retrieving the dye tablet before it hits the waste tank?
It's another knuckle headed attempt by intrusive government agencies run amuk to control our every move!
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:34 PM   #179
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Anyone out in California realize that most people don't live there and it AIN'T the center of the universe and many don't WANT it to be???????

I think there are a lot of Americans who wouldn't mind if the entire left coast fell off into the Pacific ocean.
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