Mandatory Dye Tablets for Your Black tank??

[Art]

My poo is no different than any other animals poo

Humans are not an invasive species!

We are just as much a part of nature as any other animal!

Regarding (boaters) each doing our very best to keep water ways free of untreated human fecal matter... I'd say... too many Captains just don't give a crap! Pun Intended.

If each weekend of the boating season there were ninety (90) boats anchored-solo or rafted-together in relatively small, confined harbor (or maybe docked at a marina) and 50% of them (45 boats, each with average of 3 aboard = 135 people which = approx 135 fecal flushes per day) were flushing raw sewage during weekends of play; is it safe (smart) to swim in that water?

In context: If there were 135 real big dogs (each 150 lb +/-) placing their raw crap into that harbor or marina per day each weekend of boating season - Care for a Swim?? I bet the dogs wouldn't mind!

I'm simply saying that (unlike dogs) we humans should be smart enough to not swim in our own shat! Therefore it is good policy on TF to discuss ways of best keeping our excrements in check and ALL our waters clean. It ain't rocket science to have fully treated sewage, and/or to utilize pump-outs, and/or to dump minimum off 3 miles shore.

And, discussions throughout this thread are good for new boaters’ or soon to be boater’s marine septic knowledge whether they are currently members of or lurkers on Trawler Forum.

Happy Clean-Water Boating Daze! - Art

 

[Moonstruck]

My poo is no different than any other animals poo

Humans are not an invasive species!

We are just as much a part of nature as any other animal!

Yeah, but humans are the only animals smart enough to concentrate the poo from thousands or even millions, and put it in a large pipe to dump it in one spot. That is just a brilliant idea. Boats running around broad casting theirs is just so terrible. Boaters need to pump theirs out so that it can be concentrated with the rest of the poo.

 

[BandB]

The reality is that most boaters should be able to either use pump out stations or to treat it on board and dispose of treated waste more than three miles off shore. There is really no reason not to do one or the other. You can argue about the importance and many different opinions there, but it's just not something difficult to comply with. And as more marinas add pump out facilities and more boats have sewage treatment systems, then it will become even easier. Yes, in most areas inside three miles I could legally empty my treated waste into the water and outside three miles I could empty it straight without treatment. But I don't have any reason to do either, so I don't.

Are there worse polluters? Certainly. But that's an entirely different issue. At home I separate my trash and recyclable items even though I fully know a significant percentage of what I put in recycling doesn't get recycled due to capacity. But that percentage is much smaller than it was years ago. Look at the products you buy today that are recycled or use recycled packaging and then can be recycled itself.

The fact is that as population continues to grow, had we not taken any steps pollution of all types would have grown and been far worse than they were years ago. Instead, they're better. There are still tons of issues, but at least doing something is better than nothing.

 

[ksanders]

Yeah, but humans are the only animals smart enough to concentrate the poo from thousands or even millions, and put it in a large pipe to dump it in one spot. That is just a brilliant idea. Boats running around broad casting theirs is just so terrible. Boaters need to pump theirs out so that it can be concentrated with the rest of the poo.

Yes!

My Purasan treatment system probably exceeds the performance of municipal systems.

 

[Capthead]

This is a really crappy thread.

When they potty train the seagulls, great blue herons, pelicans, seals and whales, then I'll know the EPA has done it's job. A blue whale poops as much as 5400 human poops a day. Go after them.

 

[Capthead]

Another thought, they place a red dye in my head. I flush it into the holding tank with a few extra flushes. Then I turn my valve back to overboard.

Now the dye has done it's job and I can poop poop a doo.

 

[Rambler]

Mostly true, although I have noticed that mine is odorless.

My ENT has a pill that'll cure that.

 

[Rambler]

but at least doing something is better than nothing.

But is penalizing folks going to do anything except make them more stealth in their dumping? From my perspective, most laws and penalties are punitive on those that try to abide by the system, while those that are going to skirt it never have to abide by it at all. Seems the burden and costs land on those that mostly abide by the rules. Those same people that would have and are going to abide by the rules most of the time.

If everyone has dyed holding tanks, and you just pumped yours out, and a slip transient dumps his out at wee:30 in the morning just before leaving the slip for places north, south, east or west, and the dyed remnants remain next to your boat, who do you suppose gets ticketed? You're there, with an empty tank. Almost as bad as being found standing over the body, holding the weapon.

People have to care enough to make a difference. Laws just punish people, and often times it's the people trying to do right that get it in the end.

 

[BandB]

My ENT has a pill that'll cure that.

This is remindful of the elderly woman who went to her doctor and said she farted a lot but fortunately it was odorless. He quickly examined her nose and sinuses. As she let one go her found out definitely not odorless. That resolved, she said, "Well, at least I don't make a sound when I do it." He then examined her ears.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You haven't seen some of the small ones at some marinas on the East Coast. In some areas there is still a shortage of stations and the equipment in use is undersized. Also some marinas only have pump out at the fuel pumps and have limited dock space there.

Oregone and Washington states provide this service for free and i believe it is a good use of the taxpayers money. The folks on the east coast should start demanding their states provide this great free service...

 

[rwidman]

This thread was originally about the government boarding your boat and introducing a substance into your boat's head. Is this a right we want to give to the government? Next they will be checking our homes for low flow shower heads and smoke detectors.

Good reason or not, I don't believe we should give up our rights to the government. There are existing laws. Enforce them but do it without compromising the rights of the citizens.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Amen brother!

 

[rwidman]

I would like to ask some questions to those who dump at the three mile zone, If you have easy access to a pump out station, why do you pump at sea ? is it because you can ? is it because you are lazy ? Is it because you don't care ? I am no tree hugger, pump out seems to be the right choice when available.

This is a good example of how someone can word a post so there is a hidden meaning without it being said. In this case the hidden meaning is that anyone who discharges waste legally at sea is somehow inferior to someone who doesn't. Lazy? Don't care? Because you can?

How about this - You are on a cruise from X to Y and your route takes you out to sea. It could be three miles, it could be twenty three miles out to sea.

Wouldn't it be pretty stupid to waste the time and fuel to come back to shore in the middle of your route to find a pumpout station? Wouldn't it be mare harmful to the environment burning the fossil fuel and emitting the extra hydrocarbons?

And Art, I'm having a hard time seeing you as the environmentalist you claim to be when you own and operate a boat that burns fossil fuel and takes you two and from places you don't need to go at probably two miles per gallon.

You really should have a sailboat with no auxiliary power. At least then you might have some credibility.

 

[Adelaide]

Earth, our house / home, has become overpopulated with humans; population increase continues.

During last few hundred years many societies have developed extremely useful and inventive ways to make life easier and, to even become fun on this planet; invention agenda continues.

Unfortunately for their citizens many societies have not been so inventive productive.

Due to overpopulation and many types of the inventions created we humans simply are overloading this “planet’s natural recycling system’s capabilities” that are contained in its ecosystem.

Pleasure boating topic on this thread regarding whether to dump-out into water or to pump-out untreated fecal matter into sewage treatment systems is only a small fraction of human-based requirements to hopefully stop overloading Earth’s ecosystem. BUT – reduction of untreated fecal matter in swimming waters Is A Part of the Clean-Up Agenda.

One of my businesses is heavily into cleaning the atmosphere. Boating to me at this stage of life is pure enjoyment... helps keep me sane!

Realizing the perilous ecosystemic conditions on our planet I feel it is best to “Pump-Out – Not – Dump-Out!

Just saying!

Happy Boating Daze! – Art

Have you ever traveled outside of our major cities? There is vast amounts of space..... in the future we will be 'printing' food, housing, and clothing. Hopefully we will re-invest into our aging nuclear power program. It's the cleanest source of energy we have. It's also capable of solving most problems that come with our increasing human population on the planet. So, we are just getting started, we'll continue to make room for everyone. The environmentalists just need to get out of our way with regards to nuclear power.

 

[Art]

For Crap Sake - What is the real problem here?

How can any sane person even contemplate if it is right or wrong to dump their untreated turds into ANY TYPE/AREA of localized salt or fresh waters???

FCS - Treat it / Pump-it-out / Or, go 3 miles off shore – IT’s JUST THAT SIMPLE!

NO RAW SEWAGE IN OUR WATERS – PERIOD, The End!

Centuries ago civilization had raw sewage flowing down street sides/curbs

Then out houses with holes dug into the ground

Then flush toilets that emptied into water ways or fields

Then cesspools to hide the flushed effluent

Then septic tanks with leach field systems to hide and ecologically distribute/dissipate all human wastes back into the soils

Then sewer systems to transport effluents out to sea

Then sewage recycling/aerating plants to reduce effluent toxicity and make the remaining water serviceable for vegetable watering and other commercial purposes, but, non drinkable

Soooo, human waste recycling is getting better and better via technological improvements – that includes caring for marine waste on pleasure boats! Therefore, there is simply no reason, excuse, or complainant (aside from extreme on board sewage emergency) that is good enough or important enough for any boater to be emitting raw, untreated human sewage into waterways. – Again, PERIOD!!

Next time any person on a boat dumps a little or a lot of raw, untreated black sewage into water – ask yourself – Am I crazy, or just too dumb to “sea” the reality of this putrid/dirty action?

 

[psneeld]

Oregone and Washington states provide this service for free and i believe it is a good use of the taxpayers money. The folks on the east coast should start demanding their states provide this great free service...

In NJ...they take the vast majority of funds raised by boating and boating taxes and spend it elsewhere...we can hardly get a decent, safe ramp every 20 miles or so and they are usually even without a porta pottie there to go on land.

In Florida...sometimes you have 3 great ones right in a row..... state, county and city...and pretty nice facilities too.

So how do you think demanding ANYTHING as a rich yacht owner comes across????

 

[OFB]

I dump raw sewage from my vessel every day as a live aboard. Into the Fraser River here in the PNW. The science of such suggests that is the best practise here.

My point guys is that one solution will never fit all earthly locations.

So I disagree with your view / belief there Art.

I am not crazy / I am not dumb to the issues / poo is a natural part of life it is not putrid / or dirty , its just poo.

Holding for later disposal in places local like False creek , grace harbor , or close to aquiculture sure.

 

[psneeld]

But is penalizing folks going to do anything except make them more stealth in their dumping? From my perspective, most laws and penalties are punitive on those that try to abide by the system, while those that are going to skirt it never have to abide by it at all. Seems the burden and costs land on those that mostly abide by the rules. Those same people that would have and are going to abide by the rules most of the time.

If everyone has dyed holding tanks, and you just pumped yours out, and a slip transient dumps his out at wee:30 in the morning just before leaving the slip for places north, south, east or west, and the dyed remnants remain next to your boat, who do you suppose gets ticketed? You're there, with an empty tank. Almost as bad as being found standing over the body, holding the weapon.

People have to care enough to make a difference. Laws just punish people, and often times it's the people trying to do right that get it in the end.

To me this is the coolest post of the whole thread...never gave the "leave the evidence for someone else to take the blame" before.....but pure genius!!!!

As usual...make a rule/procedure...and there's always thinking that can get around it....it will be a cold day in you know where before they start fingerprinting the dye...

Now here's an idea....maybe they might get cool and do red/white/blue dye and give each color to each boat in line so you "might" get caught cause the boats on either side have different colors.....yeah right....

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

In NJ...they take the vast majority of funds raised by boating and boating taxes and spend it elsewhere...we can hardly get a decent, safe ramp every 20 miles or so and they are usually even without a porta pottie there to go on land.

In Florida...sometimes you have 3 great ones right in a row..... state, county and city...and pretty nice facilities too.

So how do you think demanding ANYTHING as a rich yacht owner comes across????

Well wish I was rich, so I wouldn't have to worry about being retired soon. But I get that some folks think we yacht owners are rich. Just living the dream my friend, just living the dream!

I dump raw sewage from my vessel every day as a live aboard. Into the Fraser River here in the PNW. The science of such suggests that is the best practise here.

My point guys is that one solution will never fit all earthly locations.

So I disagree with your view / belief there Art.

I am not crazy / I am not dumb to the issues / poo is a natural part of life it is not putrid / or dirty , its just poo.

Holding for later disposal in places local like False creek , grace harbor , or close to aquiculture sure.

Ah!! So now I now why Seattle is so up set! It's that Canuck poo!!!!

 

[Capthead]

CA has free pumpouts. There's one about 200' from my boat.

 

[OFB]

Washington state dumps more than enough toxins into Puget sound under EPA regulations , yet point fingers north ?

Maybe they should worry about there practises and let us worry about ours.

 

[rwidman]

Art, you are ducking all the issues and questions. All you do is pontificate the same thing over and over. I get it, I think we all get it. Nobody is advocating boaters dumping raw sewage inside the legal distance.

Give it a break!

 

[Billylll]

Many societies need 3 children per couple to survive. Most nations are not meeting this criteria. The US barely makes it but most of Europe isn't even close.
Bill

 

[dannc]

...

When they potty train the seagulls, great blue herons, pelicans, seals and whales, then I'll know the EPA has done it's job. A blue whale poops as much as 5400 human poops a day. Go after them.

There is a lake here in NC, that has to close the swimming beaches in the summer because of contaminated water. The water is unsafe for swimming due to seagull poo.

Later,
Dan

 

[psneeld]

CA has free pumpouts. There's one about 200' from my boat.

Anyone out in California realize that most people don't live there and it AIN'T the center of the universe and many don't WANT it to be???????

 

[rwidman]

To get back on topic, exactly how many people here believe the government should have the power to come onto your boat uninvited and add dye to your boat's head?

Answer yes or no.

 

[psneeld]

Yes ....and to check all other infractions TFers (including me) pontificate about all the time....

 

[Billylll]

No they have no business putting dye into my holding tank. The dye could potentially damage my waste treatment system. Whats to stop a person from putting a sleeve down the waste disposal port and retrieving the dye tablet before it hits the waste tank?
It's another knuckle headed attempt by intrusive government agencies run amuk to control our every move!
Bill

 

[rwidman]

Anyone out in California realize that most people don't live there and it AIN'T the center of the universe and many don't WANT it to be???????

I think there are a lot of Americans who wouldn't mind if the entire left coast fell off into the Pacific ocean.