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Old 06-04-2014, 07:35 AM   #141
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I would like to ask some questions to those who dump at the three mile zone, If you have easy access to a pump out station, why do you pump at sea ? is it because you can ? is it because you are lazy ? Is it because you don't care ? I am no tree hugger, pump out seems to be the right choice when available.
Why do we pump out at sea? Because we do it when we are already there!
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:42 AM   #142
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For what it's worth, the SF estuarian waters are much cleaner (but saltier) now than fifty years ago.



(Harbor seal under seagull attack.)
Right on Mark!

Back when I was a teenager, I worked for Save The Bay. Like the Chesapeake (which has it's own Save The Bay), it was on the verge of being a dead zone. So many waters now taken for granted would be dead sewers today if not for the efforts of those who saw the future and acted on it.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:20 AM   #143
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I would like to ask some questions to those who dump at the three mile zone, If you have easy access to a pump out station, why do you pump at sea ? is it because you can ? is it because you are lazy ? Is it because you don't care ? I am no tree hugger, pump out seems to be the right choice when available.
Most regulations are scatter shot when the target is usually more specific. Point source pollution is a good way to kill a restricted waterway - municipal dumping, agricultural waste, leaking septic tanks, etc. I include morons who dump into marinas, since the amount of water and the potential concentration within the marina start to resemble point source pollution.

However, boaters dumping their waste into deep(ish) water subject to tidal flows willy nilly as they move around is not only not harmful but if the e coli is killed through extremely simple and economical systems is definitely beneficial. As far as I'm concerned, I could care less what boater dumps his potty around my waters, as long as it is away from shore - 3 mile or otherwise. The eco-system thanks that boater whenever it happens.

And on the subject of poo, a paper published a few years ago proposed that if the whale population increased to pre-hunting levels, it would take a significant whack out of atmospheric CO2 - another source of pollution I am profoundly indifferent to - but if you are inclined to give a rip, the reason whales equal lower CO2 is because their VW Beetle size floaters so stimulate the ecosystem that carbon fixing critters absorb more of the stuff than otherwise, what with the banquet available each time a whale pinches a loaf.

Lots of things to worry about in this world, but boaters feeding the fish while underway is not one of them.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:22 AM   #144
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We have MSD's so macerate and treat our sewage prior to disposing. So it's none of your answers above. We save others having to process and transfer our sewage. And we help not overburden the pump out stations. Otherwise we have never dumped out waste.
That's our solution as well.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:06 AM   #145
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OK , like I said I have no problem for those who have no access to pump out stations or on a trip where just to come in and dump is very costly but enter or leave and have access and not utilize one is lazy. To say you are feeding the eco system. . . . what did this world do before your pooo ? Will a drop a day in a Olympic size pool ever show up ? Maybe several thousand gallons a day will show up in the ocean, maybe not in your life time but who's your kids, grand-kids or great grand kids ?
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:26 AM   #146
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I’m no purest and believe (except for mandated NDZ’s) that properly treated sewage should be OK for release in waterways that consistently experience good tidal flow with at least relatively strong current for portion of the flow... but... not untreated raw sewage released anywhere except into a pump-out facility or 3 miles + off shore. I also feel (as long as equipment is available on board) it is thoughtful and wise to properly treat sewage before releasing into 3 mile waters. That simply makes sense for added protection of shore line sea life and swimmers.

Following are quotes from: CA SF Bay Delta’s San Joaquin and Sacramento River Pumpout Map & Guide (dated 2005/2006, but still relevant)
http://www.pumpoutstations.com/sacramento_pumpout_stations.htm

- As of 2004, there were 232,297 registered boats in the Bay-Delta region and nearly one million statewide — enough to make a sizable impact on water quality. [My input: I notice many “live aboard” boats that never get new registration stickers affixed. Wonder if they are counted as registered. And, you know the chances of their having treated sewage release... not good!)

- While the amount of sewage pollution contributed by boaters isn't enormous, it does impact the health of human water users and the Bay-Delta ecosystem. Swimmers, windsurfers or boaters who come in contact with raw sewage can get stomach aches, diarrhea, skin rashes, hepatitis and even typhoid or cholera.

- Diners with a taste for raw clams, oysters or mussels face some of the same perils if the shellfish have been contaminated with sewage. Fish can die when the biological processes that break down sewage steal too much oxygen from their waters.

THE POOP

1. A weekend boater flushing untreated sewage into the Bay produces the same amount of bacterial pollution as that of 10,000 people whose sewage passes through a treatment plant.

2. Studies have found elevated levels of fecal coliform bacteria — a commonly used indicator for measuring the presence of feces in water — where there are concentrations of recreational boaters.

3. Over 100 different intestinal pathogens — viruses, parasites and bacteria — can be found in sewage.

4. Fecal coliform counts dropped from 16,000 per 100 ml to 23 per 100 ml in California's Avalon Harbor after the harbor launched a boater education and clean water program. As part of the program, dye tablets are deposited in on-board toilets, making illegal discharges highly visible.

5. Synthetic hormones (from birth control pills and hormone therapy) secreted via women's urine into waterways can be absorbed by fish, causing physiological changes and affecting the reproductive ability of male fish. Antibiotics and other drugs taken by humans are also turning up in the nation’s waterways.


I’m not trying to pass judgment on anyone... Just saying that boating sewage, like all sewage, needs to be handled thoughtfully for all concerned so as to keep our waters and sea life pristine as possible. Untreated sewage released from boats, especially in sedentary, confined areas is a true bummer! I recommend... just think clearly (e.g. cleanly) about sewage ramifications before dumping... and... if possible clear your black tanks by pumping!

Happy Clean-Water Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:47 AM   #147
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OK , like I said I have no problem for those who have no access to pump out stations or on a trip where just to come in and dump is very costly but enter or leave and have access and not utilize one is lazy. To say you are feeding the eco system. . . . what did this world do before your pooo ? Will a drop a day in a Olympic size pool ever show up ? Maybe several thousand gallons a day will show up in the ocean, maybe not in your life time but who's your kids, grand-kids or great grand kids ?
Oh, it will all show up, or at least thermodynamics says so. My poo, your poo, everyone's poo will provide a return of a portion of what we consumed in life to the benefit of a number of organisms beyond number, never mind what feeds on those critters. The idea that biologic processes that have been going on for eons and on which life itself is dependent are intrinsically bad when human sourced is one of the odder lunacies of eco-fanatics. Concentrate waste in one spot in the water and kill life. Distribute it and create new life.

What's so complicated about that?
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:55 AM   #148
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OK , like I said I have no problem for those who have no access to pump out stations or on a trip where just to come in and dump is very costly but enter or leave and have access and not utilize one is lazy. To say you are feeding the eco system. . . . what did this world do before your pooo ? Will a drop a day in a Olympic size pool ever show up ? Maybe several thousand gallons a day will show up in the ocean, maybe not in your life time but who's your kids, grand-kids or great grand kids ?
My poo is no different than any other animals poo

Humans are not an invasive species!

We are just as much a part of nature as any other animal!
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:50 PM   #149
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My poo is no different than any other animals poo
Mostly true, although I have noticed that mine is odorless.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:58 PM   #150
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... although I have noticed that mine is odorless.


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Old 06-04-2014, 01:18 PM   #151
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My poo is no different than any other animals poo

Humans are not an invasive species!

We are just as much a part of nature as any other animal!
Regarding (boaters) each doing our very best to keep water ways free of untreated human fecal matter... I'd say... too many Captains just don't give a crap! Pun Intended.

If each weekend of the boating season there were ninety (90) boats anchored-solo or rafted-together in relatively small, confined harbor (or maybe docked at a marina) and 50% of them (45 boats, each with average of 3 aboard = 135 people which = approx 135 fecal flushes per day) were flushing raw sewage during weekends of play; is it safe (smart) to swim in that water?

In context: If there were 135 real big dogs (each 150 lb +/-) placing their raw crap into that harbor or marina per day each weekend of boating season - Care for a Swim?? I bet the dogs wouldn't mind!

I'm simply saying that (unlike dogs) we humans should be smart enough to not swim in our own shat! Therefore it is good policy on TF to discuss ways of best keeping our excrements in check and ALL our waters clean. It ain't rocket science to have fully treated sewage, and/or to utilize pump-outs, and/or to dump minimum off 3 miles shore.

And, discussions throughout this thread are good for new boaters’ or soon to be boater’s marine septic knowledge whether they are currently members of or lurkers on Trawler Forum.

Happy Clean-Water Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:30 PM   #152
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My poo is no different than any other animals poo

Humans are not an invasive species!

We are just as much a part of nature as any other animal!

Yeah, but humans are the only animals smart enough to concentrate the poo from thousands or even millions, and put it in a large pipe to dump it in one spot. That is just a brilliant idea. Boats running around broad casting theirs is just so terrible. Boaters need to pump theirs out so that it can be concentrated with the rest of the poo.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:38 PM   #153
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The reality is that most boaters should be able to either use pump out stations or to treat it on board and dispose of treated waste more than three miles off shore. There is really no reason not to do one or the other. You can argue about the importance and many different opinions there, but it's just not something difficult to comply with. And as more marinas add pump out facilities and more boats have sewage treatment systems, then it will become even easier. Yes, in most areas inside three miles I could legally empty my treated waste into the water and outside three miles I could empty it straight without treatment. But I don't have any reason to do either, so I don't.

Are there worse polluters? Certainly. But that's an entirely different issue. At home I separate my trash and recyclable items even though I fully know a significant percentage of what I put in recycling doesn't get recycled due to capacity. But that percentage is much smaller than it was years ago. Look at the products you buy today that are recycled or use recycled packaging and then can be recycled itself.

The fact is that as population continues to grow, had we not taken any steps pollution of all types would have grown and been far worse than they were years ago. Instead, they're better. There are still tons of issues, but at least doing something is better than nothing.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:01 PM   #154
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Yeah, but humans are the only animals smart enough to concentrate the poo from thousands or even millions, and put it in a large pipe to dump it in one spot. That is just a brilliant idea. Boats running around broad casting theirs is just so terrible. Boaters need to pump theirs out so that it can be concentrated with the rest of the poo.
Yes!

My Purasan treatment system probably exceeds the performance of municipal systems.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:59 PM   #155
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This is a really crappy thread.

When they potty train the seagulls, great blue herons, pelicans, seals and whales, then I'll know the EPA has done it's job. A blue whale poops as much as 5400 human poops a day. Go after them.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:02 PM   #156
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Another thought, they place a red dye in my head. I flush it into the holding tank with a few extra flushes. Then I turn my valve back to overboard.

Now the dye has done it's job and I can poop poop a doo.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:11 PM   #157
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Mostly true, although I have noticed that mine is odorless.

My ENT has a pill that'll cure that.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:22 PM   #158
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but at least doing something is better than nothing.

But is penalizing folks going to do anything except make them more stealth in their dumping? From my perspective, most laws and penalties are punitive on those that try to abide by the system, while those that are going to skirt it never have to abide by it at all. Seems the burden and costs land on those that mostly abide by the rules. Those same people that would have and are going to abide by the rules most of the time.

If everyone has dyed holding tanks, and you just pumped yours out, and a slip transient dumps his out at wee:30 in the morning just before leaving the slip for places north, south, east or west, and the dyed remnants remain next to your boat, who do you suppose gets ticketed? You're there, with an empty tank. Almost as bad as being found standing over the body, holding the weapon.

People have to care enough to make a difference. Laws just punish people, and often times it's the people trying to do right that get it in the end.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:38 PM   #159
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My ENT has a pill that'll cure that.
This is remindful of the elderly woman who went to her doctor and said she farted a lot but fortunately it was odorless. He quickly examined her nose and sinuses. As she let one go her found out definitely not odorless. That resolved, she said, "Well, at least I don't make a sound when I do it." He then examined her ears.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:39 PM   #160
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You haven't seen some of the small ones at some marinas on the East Coast. In some areas there is still a shortage of stations and the equipment in use is undersized. Also some marinas only have pump out at the fuel pumps and have limited dock space there.
Oregone and Washington states provide this service for free and i believe it is a good use of the taxpayers money. The folks on the east coast should start demanding their states provide this great free service...
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