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Old 05-29-2014, 09:38 AM   #41
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Probably north of $3000.00 including some expensive labor I paid. It would have been more, but ours doesn't stink you know.
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:10 AM   #42
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Probably north of $3000.00 including some expensive labor I paid. It would have been more, but ours doesn't stink you know.
So - Whose Does??

When we first purchased our dual-head Tolly I brought in a certified Raritan installation specialist to correctly set things up. Considerable equipment was already on board and some was added. We're not set up same as you... but... our craft does easily pass muster - so to say!
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:03 PM   #43
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How many days can you cruise before your holding tank is full and in that time how many had no access to a pump out station if you chose to pull into a port and use it ? I sometimes wonder if fish in a area that just got dumped on get contaminated and then a fisherman happens to catch those fish get sick. To me anyone that dumps untreated waste at the legal 3 mile instead of taking the time to use a available pump out station is no better than throwing trash out the window of your car legal or not unless you are on a very long several week type crossing. I hear people say I run out the 3 miles to dump so I can run my engines, and that's with two pump out stations both easy to use in the harbor. Use the pump out station before or after you go out.
You know more and more people are going to turn against the boat dumping the more they hear about it and then big brother will come in and say unless your boat is a zillion feet long no overboard dumping. Start using the pump out stations as often as you can so people and big brother notice that. Just a thought.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:56 PM   #44
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Another discussion about things people have little experience with except what they do on a regular basis.

There are places where pumpouts are a complete afterthought...even in places where NDZs are present or right around the corner.

I find it much more environmentally favorable to build a pumpout system that uses resources and energy to run rather than dumping 3 miles out and in hours or a day everything is biologically sanitized....ARE YOU SERIOUS???????

Human based disease I seriously doubt is transmitted to fish and back again to humans...heavy metals is one thing, bacteria is another.

Urine is sterile for the most part...make up your own minds...a couple thousand peeing into a trillion gallons where you swim or a pool where a kid pees in 20,000 gallons or so...which is worse?

Most people need a grip about this subject...almost as many assumptions and speculations as boating accidents.

A backpacker magazine I read strongly suggested smearing your body waste on rocks so the suns UV would sterilize it almost immediately instead of burying it and having it unsanitary for days or weeks.

You decide...I'll vote and pump and hold to my own conscience...I feel a system that treats to whatever degree is the best solution...even if you are full and need to pump it out into a NDZ...its better than the local town that overflows raw sewage when something goes wrong...at least your effluent is almost bacteria free.

So many opinions and so little "big picture" thought.
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:14 PM   #45
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Well here is the solution:

Enforce the exsisting laws on the books......

I know kind of simple..
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:18 PM   #46
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In my area, the government doesn't think restrooms or even porta-potties are needed at boat ramps so what do people do after a long day on the water drinking beer? They pee (or poop) directly into the river (not illegal, BTW).

So what's the difference between peeing or pooping directly into the river or into a boat head and then pumping it out? Nothing but the legality of it. Actually, coming from a boat, at least it's chopped up into little pieces, not floating as a log on the surface.

Obviously we don't want the QE II dumping it's holding tank in the local harbor, but the poop from a few small boats is nothing compared to the poop from fish and marine mammals. It's also nothing compared to what many cities and towns contribute through overflow or accidents.
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:41 PM   #47
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Greetings,
I'm with Mr. bumpbug on this one. VERY valid point about municipal spills. Most laws are NOT for the average citizen who follows rules of etiquette, in the broadest sense. The laws are for the boors who think nothing of what effect his/her actions has on others around. So if it takes dyeing effluent, mandatory pumping or NDZ's so be it. I think Mr. ASD is spot on (post #45).
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:42 PM   #48
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What is done in a "BlueBird" or "Bounder" or other fully self contained Motor Home...

Think there are many motor home owners who let 50 +/- gallons of their crap and t-paper fly out while on the road, or pull over alongside the road with a downward sloped edge so effluent can roll down the hill to eventually become sanitized by nature???

Hell no! They go find and utilize a pump-out station - even if they are camping in nature and not staying at a recognized camp ground.

So... why should boaters be any different??? OK, OK - if there simply is not a pump-out in range and the tank gets full - then drain it some or even empty it totally if necessary. Thats called an emergency.

The only reason most boats dump hold-outs into water is because the Captain just hates to be bothered in locating/using a pump-out service.

We all need to take responsibility for our own actions. If anyone feels it is correct to dump 20, 30, 75, or even 100 gallons of untreated, fermenting weeks-old-poop and t-paper onto waters anywhere inside the 3 mile mark (even that rather slight distance off shore is questionable) then leave it lay on your own conscience.

You know why we each shower/bathe 3 to 7 times per week?? Cause humans are basically dirty; and, we want to stay clean/smelling good. Know why on olden times we had out houses... cause our crap stinks. Know why technology eventually developed flush toilets, sewer systems, and treatment plants that (try to) sanitize our effluent cause were fairly smart. Know what mariners did for time in memorial before our modern age they dumped all their crap right into the water. Do you know what we should be doing with pump-out locations being fairly plentiful? Ill leave the answer to that up to your own intelligence and conscience!

Happy Keeping Water Clean Daze! Art
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:48 PM   #49
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Been a long term RVer and long term boater...to compare the two where 99% of the RV campsites I've been to have instant sewage drainaige versus boating where 0% have instant sewage drainaige shows a complete misunderstanding of the issue.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:55 PM   #50
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Greetings,
Mr. P. FULLY agree. Closest pump out to us, if and when it's working, is about an hours run. The NEXT one is 7 hours away. We go on shore.
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Old 05-29-2014, 05:09 PM   #51
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.

The only reason most boats dump hold-outs into water is because the Captain just hates to be bothered in locating/using a pump-out service.
The nice thing about Oregon and Washington is the states put pump outs everywhere and they are free!
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Old 05-29-2014, 05:44 PM   #52
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Human based disease I seriously doubt is transmitted to fish and back again to humans...heavy metals is one thing, bacteria is another.
Fish, no. Shellfish is a different matter.

Hepatitis outbreaks are usually the result of shoreside houses with faulty plumbing. On the other hand it might be very difficult to prove more transient sources (like boats) as the cause of an outbreak.
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Old 05-29-2014, 05:46 PM   #53
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RVers don't dump illegally....

I have 78000 miles of RVing before getting back to cruising and this is generally true. Couldn't resist this one tho...

Chicago Tribune

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Old 05-29-2014, 06:06 PM   #54
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In my area we are on the edge of a NDZ, but we are in it. I have a hold-n-treat PuraSan unit that can only treat waste from my holding tank. In Little Egg at least the County runs 2 pump out boats. They visit me once a week. This works out well for my wife and I. When we go south of Little Egg into Great Egg we use the H-N-T PuraSan. Either way I'm good except the County employees that run the boats always hold their hand out for a tip. I use a Raritan Marine Elegance low water flush head and a 36 gallon holding tank. I'm installing the same system in my Gulfstar only the holding tank will be 45 gallons.
I gladly give a tip to pump out boat operator.
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:15 PM   #55
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Art, here is our solution to the problem. Moonstruck cruises in different areas. In the Bahamas there are few pump out facilities. I think they depend on the tides sweeping across the Banks to flush out pollutant. From Biscayne Bay to Key West (and probably Garden Key} there is a zero discharge zone.

Here is what we installed.

Raritan Engineering | Waste Treatment | Hold n' Treat

We did not do the installation as shown with Raritan's dinky holding tank. We have a 70 gal. holding tank, and use it. This gives us the flexibility to pump over treated sewage, or turn off and lock the system for holding tank use. We looked at it several different ways, and this seemed best for us.

Key West has mandatory pump outs.
+1 That's what we use in our current boat and the Gulfstar is getting them same system only a larger type III.
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:22 PM   #56
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Another discussion about things people have little experience with except what they do on a regular basis.

There are places where pumpouts are a complete afterthought...even in places where NDZs are present or right around the corner.

I find it much more environmentally favorable to build a pumpout system that uses resources and energy to run rather than dumping 3 miles out and in hours or a day everything is biologically sanitized....ARE YOU SERIOUS???????

Human based disease I seriously doubt is transmitted to fish and back again to humans...heavy metals is one thing, bacteria is another.

Urine is sterile for the most part...make up your own minds...a couple thousand peeing into a trillion gallons where you swim or a pool where a kid pees in 20,000 gallons or so...which is worse?

Most people need a grip about this subject...almost as many assumptions and speculations as boating accidents.

A backpacker magazine I read strongly suggested smearing your body waste on rocks so the suns UV would sterilize it almost immediately instead of burying it and having it unsanitary for days or weeks.

You decide...I'll vote and pump and hold to my own conscience...I feel a system that treats to whatever degree is the best solution...even if you are full and need to pump it out into a NDZ...its better than the local town that overflows raw sewage when something goes wrong...at least your effluent is almost bacteria free.

So many opinions and so little "big picture" thought.
Just an article I ran across to this link but I am showing a part of it. granted it is somewhere else but I am sure you could find other news.

" Sewage released into the rivers and oceans can cause a threat to both human health and the environment.



Human health
According to GESAMP (2001), contamination of the coastal marine environment by sewage leads to significant numbers of infectious diseases linked to bathing and swimming in marine waters and to the consumption of seafood. Human exposures to toxins associated with algae blooms also impose significant risks.

Most illnesses are caused by pathogens, which are biological/infectious agents that cause diseases or illnesses (Wikipedia Pathogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). They cause a wide variety of acute illnesses including diarrhoea, cholera, dysentery, typhoid, and hepatitis A. Pathogenic bacteria can survive in the sea from a few days to several weeks; viruses can survive in water, fish or shellfish for several months while the hepatitis virus can remain viable in the sea for over a year (GESAMP 2001).

Depending on its source and collection methods, sewage may also contain a range of chemicals and specialized wastes including industrial chemicals, nutrients such as nitrates and phosphates, heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, medical wastes and oils and greases. These result in additional threats to human health."
Wastewater, Sewage and Sanitation — Caribbean Environment Programme

Is just one boat dangerous, maybe not, several boats over years, even with a dilution factor, if you knew someone had just dumped going through a area and that person had hepatitis, or typhoid, or other things would you fish there, the problem is you don't know. Like I say I am in the pump out business but I am not advocating mandatory pump out by a service person. But if you "have a choice" to use a pump out station please do.
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:56 PM   #57
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So since a few people are breaking the law, a good solution is to treat everyone like criminals and force them to flush dye tablets?

Anyone see anything wrong with that policy?
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Old 05-29-2014, 07:00 PM   #58
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So since a few people are breaking the law, a good solution is to treat everyone like criminals and force them to flush dye tablets?

Anyone see anything wrong with that policy?
I agree with you Ron, I see lots wrong with this misguided policy or is it a proposal?
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Old 05-29-2014, 07:09 PM   #59
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So since a few people are breaking the law, a good solution is to treat everyone like criminals and force them to flush dye tablets?

Anyone see anything wrong with that policy?
Yeah, unless it is a NDZ, as long as you are legal there should be no reason for it.
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Old 05-29-2014, 07:13 PM   #60
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Yeah, unless it is a NDZ, as long as you are legal there should be no reason for it.
Even if it's a NDZ why would they assume boats never move? In my case if I could travel through the marsh I would be 1 mile away from a treated discharge zone in other words out of the NDZ. Boats are transient meaning they are meant to move not sit a dock their entire life.
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