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Old 05-28-2014, 12:46 PM   #21
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In the places i gave as examples, pump out was weekly.
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:45 PM   #22
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I also have a pump out business in Oceanside harbor, even tho I charge less than the other, I do not have very much business but am slowly gaining customers, I have only been there 6 months. I have mixed emotions about the dye tablet, I do not advocate the mandatory pump out of all boats in the harbor. From some of my customers they are sure some do discharge in the harbor, others not so sure it happens. The times I am in the harbor most boats do not move except to get their safety checks. I have heard Oceanside as a blue collar harbor, and many only spend money on their boats when they can afford it. That's not saying they all or even most are that way. There is two pump out stations in the harbor and two mobile pump out services. We all need to keep the water ways clean, forcing mandatory pump outs could mean more business for me but I am like you and and don't want to be forced into that kind of regulation. Dye tablets I can see that it gives the boat owner their choice of how to empty, whether you pay someone, do it yourself , or go to sea, just please do it in the right way.
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:21 PM   #23
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr. b. Great to hear from somebody in the industry. I am not advocating mandatory pump outs either-only when needed-but dye tablets (could even distribute them for free) would pinpoint those who were polluting the water. Blue collar boater or not if one can't afford a pump out or decides THEIR poop doesn't stink, they should face the consequences. It's MY water too.
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:33 PM   #24
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Here's the solution.

Attachment 30217

No pesky holding tank to harm the environment. Come to think of it this may have been RT's transient neighbor.

Very high dilution factor as well!
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:58 PM   #25
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Now that's funny but brown trout won't live in salt water.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:43 PM   #26
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In the 90's, when we lived in Shilshoe Marina, Seattle, there was a movement to get rid of the liveaboards. The water in the marina did meet water quality standards and of course it was because of the liveaboards. The Port of Seattle paid for a study that showed that even if all the boats were gone, water quality standards, for fecal coliform, would still not be met. The solution was to raise the rent $50/month. If you contracted with a pump out service or showed that you went to the pump out station weekly, you got the $50 back. We contracted with SS Head for weekly pump out service. It was a good solution.
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:26 PM   #27
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Guess I'm missing something... wouldn't be the first time... but how do they see that dye at night on an outgoing tide? Or do people dump during the day so this whole concept might show something?

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Old 05-28-2014, 08:39 PM   #28
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Greetings,
Mr. M. Nope, I don't think you're missing anything at all. Those underhanded enough to resort to "sneakiness" will eventually be caught out. Could have a glow in the dark dye I suppose. super high glow phosphorescent luminofor pigment, View luminofor pigment, ANJ Product Details from Beijing Green Energy Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:07 PM   #29
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Now that's funny but brown trout won't live in salt water.
Blind Mullet do just fine though.
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:53 PM   #30
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Simple Solution: Holding tank with no over board release outlet, i.e. evacuation by pump-out only! That's what we have. Make that mandatory and there cannot be effluent released into waters. Period!

Ta heck with blue die!
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:11 AM   #31
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Simple Solution: Holding tank with no over board release outlet, i.e. evacuation by pump-out only! That's what we have. Make that mandatory and there cannot be effluent released into waters. Period!

Ta heck with blue die!
Not exactly practical for those of us who venture offshore. We have Headhunter MSD Treatment Systems.

Still we are fine with the restrictions at marinas or in close harbors and would have no issue with the dyes. Not discharging doesn't create a problem for us in those situations. It's on long runs and offshore runs we need to discharge. Also, even though we could legally discharge untreated when more than 3 miles out, we don't choose to do so. Similarly we don't choose to dump bottles or cans. We compact them and dispose of them when we reach shore.
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:32 AM   #32
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Simple Solution: Holding tank with no over board release outlet, i.e. evacuation by pump-out only! That's what we have. Make that mandatory and there cannot be effluent released into waters. Period!

Ta heck with blue die!
I guess if you don't actually go anywhere that would work.
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:35 AM   #33
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Not exactly practical for those of us who venture offshore. We have Headhunter MSD Treatment Systems.

Still we are fine with the restrictions at marinas or in close harbors and would have no issue with the dyes. Not discharging doesn't create a problem for us in those situations. It's on long runs and offshore runs we need to discharge. Also, even though we could legally discharge untreated when more than 3 miles out, we don't choose to do so. Similarly we don't choose to dump bottles or cans. We compact them and dispose of them when we reach shore.
I agree that if a boat stays off shore for L-O-N-G durations that “in sea water” black-water discharge capability would be required. And, there could/should be exclusions in a "no-discharge" holding tank rule (law) wherein long duration off shore boats can be issued permits that enable overboard sewage discharge capabilities.

However, how many pleasure boats are actually far away from some form of pump out facility for more than a fairly short time? Correct head units and sizable holding tanks can enable considerable length of several to many days before black water becomes a burden. I’d venture to guess that over 95% of all pleasure boats are not ever far away from pump outs (e.g. dockside pumps or pump boats) for more than one to four days max. There is no real need to have a black water release on the majority of pleasure boats.

That said – I think that the vast amount of seawater and large lake human effluent pollution comes from land based treatment plants. In Nor Cal there are too often news reports of multi thousand gallon sewage overloads spewed into our bays and coastal waters. These usually happen during rainy seasons. The drought of last couple years seems to have reduced this effect.

In 1950’s / 60’s I was brought up in NY, Queens, and Nassau County LI. Want to talk about water pollution??? I’ve got some pretty F’d up stories about when I was young on those inland and coastal waters! In what I see for 2014 we humans have done a pretty good job of cleaning up our act. Still have more cleaning to accomplish, and, making a law to have NO-Discharge black water holding tanks in most pleasure boats would be a step in the right direction.

Happy Pleasure Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:49 AM   #34
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making a law to have NO-Discharge black water holding tanks in most pleasure boats would be a step in the right direction. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Happy Pleasure Boating Daze! - Art
Now sure how you make a "most boat" law. Plus even those that you'd say fit the majority of the time, may have that occasional trip. For instance, many boats on the East coast stay close to shore most of the time but then have that occasional trip to the Bahamas or the Caribbean. I understand your intent and it makes sense, just complicated to decide which boats it belongs to.

Of course this is one of those many places where it would sure be nice if we just had one consistent set of rules and not 50 different ones for each state plus various subsets of those 50.
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:23 AM   #35
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What is needed is a system with no BUILT IN waste discharge system, to please thr poop police.

Easy to imagine a system with a high mounted tank & deck discharge that could be emptied by syphon from a hose simply trailed in the water at low speed .
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:28 AM   #36
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In my cruising around the United States and Canada I have found several "systems" which seem to actually reduce/eliminate the in harbor waste dumps

In Chicago, each boat is inspected at the beginning of the season and the Y valve and macerator pump out are locked shut with a numbered cable tie. Since there is no legal ability to dump within 1,000 miles there is no reason for the boat owner to remove the cable tie. No cable tie on a future inspection can be grounds for fines etc. Free pump outs are available at many slips with hoses and equipment already on the docks. In addition a pump out boat service is available for the true yachtsman who prefers not to do the work himself.

In Norfolk Virginia and several marines in the US southeast pump outs were free as part of the slip rental. Can't recall the marina but portable pump out units were wheeled to your slip.

On the opposed side of things I remember several New England marinas in 2004 where the pump out equipment was located in a slip that was difficult / dangerous if not impossible for me to dock my Krogen 42 in. There was government money to finance the pump out equipment and perhaps a requirement that it be on site, but no oversight as to whether it was actually usable.

Given human nature, I don't believe that education alone will solve the problem. Either strict supervision of the boats or making the pump outs easy and free are the two workable solutions.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:43 AM   #37
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OK - With this being an ongoing question/answer/proposition thinking-quiz regarding human effluent dumping into water or pumping-out for land based recycling... let me stir the shat (so to say - lol) just a bit more!

1. Why if LectraSan and other such “fecal matter caustic reducers/removers/sanitizers” are scientifically proven to work so well is there not a law that says each boat should have one on board for helping to sanitize 3-mile or further out holding tank dumping sequences?

2. If a boat is BIG enough to stay off shore or go off shore (3-miles minimum) long enough (i.e. not near any pump out service) to fill their holding tank(s) why do they not have a switch-over available on each head to a LectraSan type of fecal-cleansing system so the holding tank needs not be filled to point of need for massive quanity of sudden raw or treated sewage release into the sea?

3. IMHO – There can be four (4) types of “flush/drain” water from any boat:
a. Black Water – That containing fecal matter and urine – From the boat’s head
b. Yellow Water – That containing urine only – From boat’s head, during long swims, sometimes over the bow rail during male actuated anchor checks before dawn - LOL
c. Grey Water – That containing bio degradable wash soaps and cleaning agents as well as body and food oils etc. – from showers, galley/head sinks, or boat item wash-downs
d. White Water – That containing simply dirty water (no added cleansing agents) used for dust/dirt wash downs (via rags, sponges, mops...etc) on any boat portion

So here are three questions and a statement:

- Of the four “flush/drain water” types I’ve listed in sequence of what I believe to have any detrimental/caustic effect to sea/large-lake waters shouldn’t “a. Black Water” be the only one really needing holding tank containment and then proper disposal (in one of several stringently supervised forms or varieties)?
- Should “b. Yellow Water” be allowed to flush through LectraSan or such sanitizer into any water area (maybe even “Yellow Water” could be non treated???)?
- Does “c. Grey Water” need any attention before drainage into waters where a boat sits or passes through?
- I believe “d. White Water” is no more detrimental than rain washing the boat naturally.

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Old 05-29-2014, 08:59 AM   #38
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Art, here is our solution to the problem. Moonstruck cruises in different areas. In the Bahamas there are few pump out facilities. I think they depend on the tides sweeping across the Banks to flush out pollutant. From Biscayne Bay to Key West (and probably Garden Key} there is a zero discharge zone.

Here is what we installed.

Raritan Engineering | Waste Treatment | Hold n' Treat

We did not do the installation as shown with Raritan's dinky holding tank. We have a 70 gal. holding tank, and use it. This gives us the flexibility to pump over treated sewage, or turn off and lock the system for holding tank use. We looked at it several different ways, and this seemed best for us.

Key West has mandatory pump outs.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:21 AM   #39
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Simple Solution: Holding tank with no over board release outlet, i.e. evacuation by pump-out only! That's what we have. Make that mandatory and there cannot be effluent released into waters. Period!

Ta heck with blue die!
Ya think? You want the authorities to plug the outlets of your boat so you cannot pump out where it's legal? You want to have to "hold it" because the tank is full and the pumpout is broken or closed for the night?

Realistically, it's impossible to prevent boaters from dumping sewage into the water if they want to. If they can't pump it overboard they can pee off the swim platform or poop in a bucket and dump it overboard when nobody is looking.

Make pumpouts free and easy and people will use them. Make it difficult and they will not.

That's reality, like it or not.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:26 AM   #40
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Art, here is our solution to the problem. Moonstruck cruises in different areas. In the Bahamas there are few pump out facilities. I think they depend on the tides sweeping across the Banks to flush out pollutant. From Biscayne Bay to Key West (and probably Garden Key} there is a zero discharge zone.

Here is what we installed.

Raritan Engineering | Waste Treatment | Hold n' Treat

We did not do the installation as shown with Raritan's dinky holding tank. We have a 70 gal. holding tank, and use it. This gives us the flexibility to pump over treated sewage, or turn off and lock the system for holding tank use. We looked at it several different ways, and this seemed best for us.

Key West has mandatory pump outs.
Don - That's Da Ticket! Congrats!!

I've read about that type of "full" system. For S&G (pun intended - lol) What was the overall cost of installation?
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