Lp fridge??

[Bigfish]

Have yet to meet anybody on a midsized livaboard that is real happy with their refrigeration freezer setup
I was happy with my $300 9.9ft fridge/freezer when in the slip, and my 60 cu ft norcold 12v dc cooler when we weren't. However! The Norcold died halfway through its warranty, then its new replacement died after the same amount of time but. the replaement didn't come with its own warranty so now its dead and i have no confidence in the local Norcold dealer because they told me it was just a cooling fan problem, replaced the fan for $135 and it still doesnt work. Worse, I no longer can afford to live in a slip zo I'm on a mooring ball. Then my vintage Westerbeke 7.7kw genset died and I'm looking at around $2000 to fix that. Not an option as a cab driver on ss... Then my $300 Home Depot ac fridge died after just 3 years.. So I'm back to buying a bag of ice everydsy if the ice machine is working. I bought a little honda 2000 generator equivalent and I did get a few bucks from FEMA to get things back in order but I'm not sure which way to go. I'd fix the norcold cooler if I thought it would stay fixed.. Considering an ewuivalent Engel but its $1200, and I'm also thinking about trying the Home Depot Magic Chef replacement version for the one I have, on size for $200. If I can keep thst one running with my little generator for less than the $2 per dat I'm spending on ice, I'll be happy with that for now. Its just me on the boat... The amp draw on the magic chef says 1.5 amp on the label which seems way low to me. Any thoughts?? My counter top ice maker also died and I miss that and want another one..

 

[bogranjac1]

Buy the Engel and never have a thought again about fridges.

I have an Engel and Waeco -both 50ltr models.
The Engel uses less power (but makes TWICE the noise - you can hear an Engel across the camping ground at night,LOL) than the Waeco.

The Engel compressor will be in operation less than 50% of the 24 hour cycle.
The Waeco compressor will run for MORE THAN 50% of the 24 cycle. (up around 65%)


The Waeco's Danfross compressor takes a lot more power to kick into action than the Engel's Sawafuji.


All I know is the Waeco uses more power and have tested this lots of times in both my truck and boat in direct sun / covered and shaded.


I don't know if the Engel has superior insulation to the Waeco or the Danfoss compressor is inferior to the Sawafuji. (I have the Engel with steel case)


Remember that most other fridges have the Danfoss compressors and only Engel has Sawafuji.


So you have a trade off - more power used or more noise created.

I don't own Engle or Waeco shares or have any interest.


P.S. around an 80watt solar panel and 100 amp/hr battery will run a 45 ltr Engel well after we all become just dust

 

[Bigfish]

Thank you.. Probably the way I'll go!

 

[FF]

We installed a large RV unit on LUCY about 20 years ago.

The unit was purchased used and is perhaps 40-50 years old.

It is mounted upright in a weather proof box and is on out after deck.

This is so any loose propane could simply drain out the scuppers , overboard .

A propane reefer could be installed inside a pilot house , it would need a deep tray , with venting overboard.

Our antique reefer ran the loop and is still keeping ice cream hard and working well.

It eats a tank of propane every 3 weeks or so , which includes the propane range .

Traveling the bottles are simply exchanged most anywhere , but they could be taken to a refill place to save about $5.00 a refill.

Figure a max of a dollar a day , and absolute silence 24/7/365, and its a good deal compared to fueling , maintaining , wearing out and listening to and smelling a noisemaker.

IF I were purchasing a new unit , I would investigate the same unit , but with a house style construction , much better insulation , as made for the AMISH, a Servel .

Here are two concepts, The sun frost folks make big DC expensive units that are hard to get aboard, but are very efficient.

Non-electric propane gas powered refrigerator freezers

https://www.thenaturalhome.com/gasappliances.htm


Servel LP gas refrigerators have been a household name in propane refrigeration since 1925. Known for their reliability, we constantly hear of Servel LP gas ...


Off Grid Refrigeration: Solar Electric Vs Propane | Sun Frost Blog

Off Grid Refrigeration: Solar Electric Vs Propane | Sun Frost Blog


Jul 25, 2014 - Off Grid Refrigeration: Solar Electric Vs Propane ... Sun Frost manufactures high efficient electric refrigerators which are an excellent .... toilet composts all of a households organic waste; both human manure and food scraps.

 

[Sealife]

We second Engel. Ours is on year ten, second boat. Used as fridge and back up freezer when needed. Extremely eneregy efficient, although ours is quiet. Maybe look for a used one.

 

[Sealife]

Here is a link to sister site with a great deal on them...

Engel fridge/freezer deal!!! - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

 

[MurrayM]

Whilst searching the web for propane refrigerators rated for marine use, I found the following manufacturers description of their product:

General Introduction Absorption refrigerator due to high technology of advanced scientific and technological content, although there are many hotels in heavy use, but not really specific works for the general user to understand, ammonia poured into the system,according to a certain proportion of helium and water. Refrigerant ammonia, water absorbent, helium diffudion agent. The driving force behind the movement to promoted the direct heat source refrigerant cooling cycle to achieve the purpose, the system makes use of the principle of the principle of thermal siphon cooling system continuously without any mechanical transmission case.

Think I'll pass on that one...

 

[FF]

"Think I'll pass on that one.."

Why ? the owner just hooks the LP up and loads the box, the complexities of the function hardly matter , except it requires NO electric.

 

[MurrayM]

"Think I'll pass on that one.."

Why ?

Oh, I don't know...maybe it's because if they don't care enough to translate properly, maybe they don't care about critical design and/or manufacturing details either.

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks! I think...

 

[Larry M]

There are lots of propane refrigerators out there. Most rvs have them and Dometic and Norcold both make them. The big issue I see on a boat is the mounting so the guts are vented properly. The good ones aren’t cheap and they don’t drain the batteries.

 

[psneeld]

Whilst searching the web for propane refrigerators rated for marine use, I found the following manufacturers description of their product:



Think I'll pass on that one...

You know how many of those fridges are out there in RVs and off grid applications?

Millions and more...

I loved mine in my 5th wheel trailer...vastly superior to electric....just with boats needs to accomodate propane leaks whete RVs it isnt as scary.

 

[MurrayM]

You know how many of those fridges are out there in RVs and off grid applications?.

Sure, I get that...my point was towards a specific manufacturer.

 

[psneeld]

Sure, I get that...my point was towards a specific manufacturer.

Because of litetature or quality control?

 

[MurrayM]

Because of litetature or quality control?

Language. It suggests to me they have little presence in North America, so getting help from a service agent or ordering replacement parts might be problematic.

 

[Mule]

As always, I am with FF on this one, as usual, on being a yachtwright he stands on firm ground. A propane/electric in calm waters on propane and electric underway seems a good way.

I have 3 each Engles and they are great, stay away from the plastic one, poorly insulated. 2 swing door I use as refers and a lift door for the freezer. Less than 3 amps@ 12volts when running. Still I think (suspect) the propane/electric is a better way though

Sun Frost$$$$$$. Ouch.

 

[Lepke]

Propane appliances in a trailer can drain their fuel leaks out the door (most of the time). A boat collects the propane in the bilge. The leak and the ignition source are only a matter of time. I didn't take the pics, but seen the aftermath several times. I think propane inside the hull is stupid. Owners install stuff and then forget it forever. The people in the car survived. Just moving the grill when the wife decided to smoke.
Some of my favorite propane users:

 

[Bigfish]

Now I want to get rid of my propane stove!!

 

[FF]

"The big issue I see on a boat is the mounting so the guts are vented properly."

This is usually the same reason many reefer systems require excess power.

"Now I want to get rid of my propane stove!! "

Most folks simply install a sniffer that shuts off a solenoid.

I prefer the alarm setup, as the solenoid may eat an amp to be held open.

Not a big deal for a propane range , but 24AH a day defeats one of the joys of propane , no electrical requirements.

Our outside cockpit mount does not require a solenoid (tho we have one for the range) as any leak would simply flow overboard.

 

[fryedaze]

The age old debate about propane on boat goes on. There a millions of homes with natural gas and propane. Many sit on basements that could collect the heavy gas just like a bilge. I am sure there is a picture of an exploded house that could support not having gas in a house. A properly installed and maintained system is safe.

 

[meridian]

Just a note on Dometic. They will void the warranty if installed on a boat.

 

[Cigatoo]

Oh, I don't know...maybe it's because if they don't care enough to translate properly, maybe they don't care about critical design and/or manufacturing details either.

I feel better now. I thought that you understood what they were trying to say.

 

[denverd0n]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but...

Propane refrigerators are sensitive to their installation, and will not function properly if they are not level. If your boats rocks considerably underway, or at anchor, then running a propane fridge could very well be an issue. If your boat sits level and rocks very, very little then you will probably be fine with a propane fridge.

 

[psneeld]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but...

Propane refrigerators are sensitive to their installation, and will not function properly if they are not level. If your boats rocks considerably underway, or at anchor, then running a propane fridge could very well be an issue. If your boat sits level and rocks very, very little then you will probably be fine with a propane fridge.

Actually the opposite of what mine said I believe.

It said sitting unlevel for a period of time was bad, but the rocking motion going down the road was good.

I assume a sailboat with a significant list one way for days might be bad...but typical rocking of a coastal cruiser seems to fit the bill if I read my manual right. The coolant just shouldnt pool.

Plus the hundreds of articles I have read on boat installs seems to verify this.

If thinking about it, call the manufacturer to see what the units actual limits are.

 

[Sealife]

Might be wise to check with your insurance company as well, as it is not a “standard practice”.

 

[Mule]

I defer to FF. Wish I had one. Will be OK though with multiple Engles. Now with a $3,500 Frost King....never mind.

 

[FF]

OFF Level was a problem a few decades ago, today the mfg seem to say if you can stay in bed all is well.

OUT of level does burn more fuel if constant , but the units like motion and makes them even more efficient.

Sun Frost tries to make a big deal that a good electric unit uses less energy.

True indeed , but comparing the hassles of maintaining and feeding a diesel noisemaker ,with under a buck a day for propane seems more money and effort efficient.

A really great system was used in GB , acetylene .Lighter than air so no hazard.

It cooks well and can be used for heat or cabin lights .

Sadly the tank is heavy , but worse is in the USA a special paperwork is required to purchase the gas.

In the past (early 1900's) acetylene generators were installed in apartment houses , so the occupants could cook with clean burning gas.

I tried for a year or so to create a marine acetylene generator , but the results weren't worth the effort.

Any chemistry majors here? A fortune awaits!

 

[denverd0n]

OFF Level was a problem a few decades ago, today the mfg seem to say if you can stay in bed all is well.

Okay. I can believe that. My experience with a propane fridge was a couple of decades back, and the manufacturer stressed that a consistent, level installation was critical. Things certainly could have changed since then.