Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-03-2012, 09:04 PM   #21
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhatty View Post
Maine is well known for its "pea soupers". Gives us lots of radar practice while dodging the pots. Before radar it was even more fun.
Now that`s thick fog. I doubt you`d see your hand behind your back.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 09:19 PM   #22
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Doesn't matter what you think...the definition of reduced visibility is less than 10 NM...so less than that lights and horn is required by the USCG.
I learned it was 3 nautical miles, but don't think I have any documents to support it. If it were ten nautical miles I would (should) hear the ferries horns constantly in Oct-Dec and a smokey Aug.

Easy for me though as I have no professional reputation to defend. I did learn it when I was qualifying lookout however.

Darn it, now I have to look it up too!
__________________

Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 09:31 PM   #23
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
I learned it was 3 nautical miles ...
Hmmm. Compare that to the two-mile theoretical minimum range for horn on a ship longer than 300 meters.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 09:32 PM   #24
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
I learned it was 3 nautical miles, but don't think I have any documents to support it. If it were ten nautical miles I would (should) hear the ferries horns constantly in Oct-Dec and a smokey Aug.

Easy for me though as I have no professional reputation to defend. I did learn it when I was qualifying lookout however.

Darn it, now I have to look it up too!
Good luck...as I said..I think I tripped over it in massive research...

3 NM rings some bells in the aviation arena but I was surprised to read 10 when I came across it.

I doubt the average LEO knows what it is so the use of common sense is probably more important.

For those who argue "what's common sense" then keep at it you'll figure it out some day.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #25
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
I found it in a few places, but nothing really official.

3NM Naval Academy course.

I also found 1NM (Canadian Coast Guard Aux Pacific) and 10NM in a few places.

I'll give up quickly. Rule 19 is silent on all of the countries coast guard sites I checked. Maybe 3NM was just what the US Navy taught as there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule. Which when you think about it makes sense. If you had such a determination, a.) how would you accurately measure it, and b.) how would you prove it in a court of law? Likely better to leave it ambiguous, and relay upon the prudence of the master(s).

Either way, I don't play in fog. I'll leave that to the professionals who have to be out there. This is recreational boating, after all. I have radar, and practice with it often in good visability so I can interpret it correctly. But honestly, I would rather pilot along a shoreline to get me to a safer place then compete with a tow (scow or log raft) or the local ferries.

And Mark, I would have my nav lights on too.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:04 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Great Laker's Avatar
 
City: Spring Lake, MI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Great Laker
Vessel Model: American Tug 34
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 320
This is Lake Huron with visibility less than 25 yards. I ran 1 1/2 days in this with chart plotter, radar, and a horn. Fortunately, the radar was capable of seeing other boats including the channel marking buoys quite well.

My biggest concern was that other boats, including freighters, were not using their horns.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0430 A.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	34.9 KB
ID:	14468  
__________________
Larry
American Tug 34 - Great Laker, and Gold Looper
Home port on the vast unsalted Lake Michigan
adventuresofgreatlaker.blogspot.com
Great Laker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:09 PM   #27
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
So, it seems like my rule-of-thumb that one displays running lights and sounds horn/whistle whenever daylight visibility approaches their maximum ranges.

I'm always boating in range of land and in restricted waters, so radar gives me good estimates of visibility range. But when in doubt, I'll display and sound.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:09 PM   #28
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Not sure whether this is even related but it maes a little sense when they talk about lights and their effectiveness...maybe it carried over to when you show nav lights...

this is out of the USCG light list...

The nominal range given in this Light List is the maximum distance a
given light can be seen when the meteorological visibility is 10 nautical
miles. If the existing visibility is less than 10 NM, the range at which
the light can be seen will be reduced below its nominal range. And, if
the visibility is greater than 10 NM, the light can be seen at greater
distances. The distance at which a light may be expected to be seen
in the prevailing visibility is called its luminous range.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #29
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Laker View Post
... My biggest concern was that other boats, including freighters, were not using their horns.
The ba$tard$!
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:11 PM   #30
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
So, it seems like my rule-of-thumb that one displays running lights and sounds horn/whistle whenever daylight visibility approaches their maximum ranges.

I'm always boating in range of land and restricted waters, so radar gives me good estimates of visibility range. But when in doubt, I'll display and sound.
I don't think so...that would be a pretty foggy day for small boats to show their lights that are only required 1NM vis....I think it's much higher...in fact I'm pretty sure...just have a hard time finding the reference.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:13 PM   #31
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
... The nominal range given in this Light List is the maximum distance a given light can be seen when the meteorological visibility is 10 nautical
miles. ...
Sounds like they're referring to fixed navigational lights, such as lighthouses.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:17 PM   #32
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Sounds like they're referring to fixed navigational lights, such as lighthouses.
True but the same "light" theory may have bled over to their thinking about nav lights and their "nominal" range.

I don't care if you believe me...but 10NM is what I'd bet my rep on.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:22 PM   #33
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I don't care if you believe me...but 10NM is what I'd bet my rep on.
You're rare/precious, because I'm more likely to notice you before 99.9 percent of other boats/ships.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:25 PM   #34
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Doesn't matter what you think...the definition of reduced visibility is less than 10 NM...so less than that lights and horn is required by the USCG.

You might want to check on that. Bellingham Bay is about six or seven miles across. There are plenty of days when the haze or mist or rain is such that you cannot see Lummi Island on the far side of the bay from Bellingham although you can see boats out in the middle of the bay. But NOBODY including the big Foss and Crowley tractor tugs that are going out or coming in from tanker escort duty to the commercial fishing boats to the USCG vessels themselves coming and going from their Bellingham bases sounds fog signals. Don't know about running lights because in daylight it's almost impossible to tell if these lights are on anyway unless you're right next to the boat. The Washington State ferries don't sound their horns in conditions like these. The automated fog signals at various places in the islands don't come on in these conditions.

The ferry horns and automated signals don't crank up until the visibility is way low. Two, three miles maybe.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:31 PM   #35
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
You might want to check on that. Bellingham Bay is about six or seven miles across. There are plenty of days when the haze or mist or rain is such that you cannot see Lummi Island on the far side of the bay from Bellingham. But NOBODY including the big Foss and Crowley tractor tugs that are going out or coming in from tanker escort duty to the commercial fishing boats to the USCG vessels themselves coming and going from their Bellingham bases has running lights on or sounds fog signals. The Washington State ferries don't sound their horns in conditions like these. The automated fog signals at various places in the islands don't come on in these conditions.

The ferries and automated signals don't crank up until the visibility is way low. Two, three miles maybe.
That was pretty much the premise of my thinking too. "Restricted visibility" might actually have a local variation. Most of winter I can't see Texada or Hornby Islands from my house. ~4 NM away. Only when I can't see my neighbor, do I hear whistles.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #36
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Spy--- That's neat country you live in up there. I envy you your location and the great cruising waters you have within a fairly short reach. Where we can only dream about Desolation Sound and maybe get up there once a year it's someplace you can go on just a long weekend.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:40 PM   #37
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
You're right. It's lovely.

Tonight: Rain at times heavy. Amount 30 to 40 mm. Wind southeast 30 to 50 km/h except 60 to 80 over exposed coastal sections before morning. Temperature steady near 7.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:55 PM   #38
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
You're right. It's lovely.

Tonight: Rain at times heavy. Amount 30 to 40 mm. Wind southeast 30 to 50 km/h except 60 to 80 over exposed coastal sections before morning. Temperature steady near 7.
Well..... that's tonight. But today is just tomorrow's yesterday, right?
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 11:01 PM   #39
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
Pretty much, It's been a wet fall. Actually, I'm not even there right now anyways. If I'm here on the board, chances are I'm away at work that week, where the precipitation is whiter. Otherwise, on my weeks off, I am enjoying the beautiful area I live in (even with the relatively restricted visibility).
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 11:32 PM   #40
Guru
 
Ocean Breeze NL's Avatar
 
City: Springdale, NL
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Ocean Breeze
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 85OA38
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Pretty much, It's been a wet fall. Actually, I'm not even there right now anyways. If I'm here on the board, chances are I'm away at work that week, where the precipitation is whiter. Otherwise, on my weeks off, I am enjoying the beautiful area I live in (even with the relatively restricted visibility).
You got the best of both worlds there Spy!!

Elwin
__________________

__________________
Elwin
Ocean Breeze NL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012