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Old 01-10-2018, 01:17 PM   #1
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Loop Lifespan

If you dig hard and long enough, you'll see some threads, editorials, opinions that the Great Loop has a lifespan and it may not live longer than a few more years. Various reasons are listed for it's untimely death. Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what some seasoned Loop cruisers thought about this speculation........
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:33 PM   #2
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Only real risk is the Government closing Lake Michigan to the Sanitary canal. Think that's a hot topic that would take a long time because of commercial traffic.

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Old 01-10-2018, 01:42 PM   #3
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With a nice trailerable boat up to 32 foot or so all those potential issues disappear. Or just take the St Lawrence seaway. Of course if Illinois' long term financial outlook remains lousy then some work on the Illinois R lock area will have to be accelerated by the Corps.

Since the Erie Canal is largely NY funded, those tax dollars cannot be guaranteed for ongoing dredging and lock maintenance. The Erie is getting ready to celebrate its 200th birthday, quite a run.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:47 PM   #4
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Only real risk is the Government closing Lake Michigan to the Sanitary canal. Think that's a hot topic that would take a long time because of commercial traffic.

Ted
Oddly enough, I believe the environmentalists/sport fishing alliance has increased leverage with the current administration on this topic. Illinois and Chicago politicians had been the major stumbling block in the past. The other States and Canada would like to see the locks closed. So would I. There would likely be a "travel lift"/overland work around...another expense for loopers.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:10 PM   #5
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Oddly enough, I believe the environmentalists/sport fishing alliance has increased leverage with the current administration on this topic. Illinois and Chicago politicians had been the major stumbling block in the past. The other States and Canada would like to see the locks closed. So would I. There would likely be a "travel lift"/overland work around...another expense for loopers.
I'm not too knowledgeable in this area so forgive my basic questions. Why close the locks? What' are the benefits and impacts?
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:18 PM   #6
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Loop Lifespan

Closing the passage through Chicago could stop the Asian Carp from migrating into the Great Lakes
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:37 PM   #7
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You could have the same story of doom and gloom on all sections of the ICW too. It's expensive to maintain waterways. Some are used commercially, some not.

I've heard these predictions since I first got involved. The Chicago to Illinois River threatened by the Asian Carp and thoughts of blocking the river. NY cutting all spending on operating it's canals. All federal spending on the ICW's discontinued. I don't think it's going to happen because these have all become essential parts of the lives of many.

It's a bit like saying we're going to cut out all spending on the arts. Close all national forests as they cost money to operate.

I saw this question and my first thought was wonder how long people have thought this. So, I blindly called a long time looper and expert. He told me decades ago when the first Asian Carp showed up, and ICW and Erie as long as he could remember. I asked if the talk had intensified. He said, in his opinion, it just cycled up and down. Oh, he added one I had forgotten about too. Closing Kentucky Dam and Barkley Lock to keep the Carp out of those lakes.

I personally don't see any of this happening.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:52 PM   #8
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Oh, he added one I had forgotten about too. Closing Kentucky Dam and Barkley Lock to keep the Carp out of those lakes.
Too late for those lakes. Saw carp at Guntersville this fall.

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Old 01-10-2018, 05:01 PM   #9
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Too late for those lakes. Saw carp at Guntersville this fall.

Ted
Yes, long too late. They have had some special fishing tournaments on Kentucky Lake to try to reduce them in the past. The bad news is they're now everywhere from Michigan to Alabama. The not as bad news is that they've not totally taken over as feared.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:05 PM   #10
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I should hope that every environmentally conscious boater would support closing the locks at Chicago.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:08 PM   #11
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I should hope that every environmentally conscious boater would support closing the locks at Chicago.
Guess you don't consider me or anyone else then who doesn't share your opinion to be environmentally conscious when we support other options.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:31 PM   #12
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What other fool proof options? The electric fence is not one.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:38 PM   #13
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What other fool proof options? The electric fence is not one.
I'm not opening up a debate with you. Sticking to the thread, I don't think it will be closed. Don't know whether you think it will or not, just what you want.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:05 PM   #14
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I should hope that every environmentally conscious boater would support closing the locks at Chicago.
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What other fool proof options? The electric fence is not one.
Unfortunately, closing the locks will likely not prevent the inevitable. Hint: the Asian carp didn't come to the USA through a lock. I support trying to prevent the carp from getting in the Great lakes, but they have already been found in land locked lakes. Preventing trailerable boats and wild birds from unintentionally transporting the eggs will be the far greater challenge.

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Old 01-10-2018, 06:31 PM   #15
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I'm not opening up a debate with you. Sticking to the thread, I don't think it will be closed. Don't know whether you think it will or not, just what you want.
As I said in my earlier post, the national politics are tilting toward closure. Pointing to what's happened in other lakes is a crutch to avoid making hard decisions regarding the health of this national wonder. The GLCA is an enemy to the Great Lakes sport and commercial fishing community.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:22 PM   #16
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The Tombigbee Waterway is relatively new by comparison to the ICW. The funding for that was a big controversy, causing some delays, with reports of shoots fired at private boats after it first opened. People in that area did not like it.


Of course one of the main points of contention was that the waterway would be a huge environmental disaster. So enjoy it as long as you can.

The ICW, which is actually kept open by tugs and barges in the more narrow areas is in a serious state as it relates to the areas around the smaller inlets . Several inlets have been completely closed, with buoys pulled completely out by the coast guard in North Carolina. Sand does not like to stay put, and in most cases when the wind changes, so does the sand and the depths in those regions. During the last eight years, money and equipment was not there to keep them open.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:29 PM   #17
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The Tombigbee Waterway is relatively new by comparison to the ICW. The funding for that was a big controversy, causing some delays, with reports of shoots fired at private boats after it first opened. People in that area did not like it.


Of course one of the main points of contention was that the waterway would be a huge environmental disaster. So enjoy it as long as you can.

The ICW, which is actually kept open by tugs and barges in the more narrow areas is in a serious state as it relates to the areas around the smaller inlets . Several inlets have been completely closed, with buoys pulled completely out by the coast guard in North Carolina. Sand does not like to stay put, and in most cases when the wind changes, so does the sand and the depths in those regions. During the last eight years, money and equipment was not there to keep them open.
The equipment is ALWAYS there to keep them open. The money,not so much.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:30 PM   #18
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I should hope that every environmentally conscious boater would support closing the locks at Chicago.
As with so many "environmentally conscious" projects, I see the taxpayers and boaters paying a fortune only to discover Asian carp throughout the Great Lakes well before the ink is dry.

If they do close it, I hope they build a Big Chute type railway around the dam.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:51 PM   #19
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The equipment is ALWAYS there to keep them open. The money,not so much.
Certain type dredges can only work in areas where there is enough water for them. The hopper dredges will not work in the smaller inlets. Its also a massive permitting process for pumping sand, along with a logistical nightmare in the restrictive areas. When sand moves, if you want the inlet opened back up for economic reasons, you can't just go there one day and dredge it by any means.

The state floated a notion that boating registration fees be raised and a portion be used for dredging. Thee boating folks inland balked saying they did not use most of the inlets that needs dredging.

And lets not talk about certain sands that cannot be pumped on certain beaches, even though the fine folks that lives on the beachfront constantly want beach replenishment. Anyway, nuff of the sidebar.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:22 PM   #20
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Every time it comes up, the Supreme Court seems to feel that the benefits of keeping the waterway open outway the benefits of closing it. I can't see that sentiment changing with the current administration.

I don't understand the reaction to the Asian Carp situation. We change the eco-system, and then don't like the results. So the knee-jerk reaction is "we have to make more changes !!". Changing things is what caused the problem in the first place. Why don't people see that we need to STOP making changes. We reversed the Chicago River, removed the alligator gar, and intentionally introduced the asian carp.....and now have a problem.

We need to STOP changing things and deal with what we have.
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