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Old 12-29-2010, 03:26 PM   #81
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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skipperdude wrote:I think I need one of those *Dragon speak.* You know the computer types what you say.*
I hear a lot of radio ads for Dragon but I don't know anything about it, so don't know how effective it really is.

I did not learn to type until I joined Boeing.* Back then the company offered a huge number of free off-hour classes on just about any subject you can think of from advanced aerodynmaics to welding.* For the first few years I worked here I took a lot of the courses, from all the introductory courses on all our then-current airplanes--- 27, 37, and 47--- to theory of flight courses, the basics of airplane design, all sorts of things.* One of them was typing since I'd never taken it in school.* The course used one of the first computer-based typing applicaions-- I think the computers were TRS-80s, the famous "Trash-80."

It has reached the point where I can no longer write by hand.* On the rare occasions when someone asks me to sign a copy of one of my books I have to practice writing what I'm going to say on a piece of paper a bunch of times before I try writing it in the actual book.

*
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:03 PM   #82
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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Moonstruck wrote:

It kind of reminds me when I walked up on one of our jobs and found the drywall hangers pouting and grumbling.* The plumbers were also pouting and grumbling.* One of the biggest, roughest looking drywall guy said there was an argument.* I asked them why it got out of hand.* He said the plumbers were rude to us first.* I just said that I would send them all home if they couldn't straighten it out.* They quit grumbling.
I just had to say, thanks for the laugh.*
*
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:39 PM   #83
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

Coming back to this anchor thing, and I best be up front right off and admit for reasons of bitter experience being a Sarca devotee, that I have to agree with Marin, but also to some extent with what FF said, summed up by Eric, who said....."Point is that you NEED good seamanship but you don't NEED the latest do-dads."

This is to some extent true, but if over time a newer and better design of anything comes along, why is it seen as a virtue to not accept it when it's nautical, but rather stick with old, (assumed to be because it's tried and true), but 'new and better' is embraced in normal daily living without question.
Because in many cases they are 'tried' for sure, but not necessarily 'true', as the reason I now have Sarca is the trouble I had getting a plough (CQR) to set properly and quickly, whereas the Sarca does - every time, no matter how casually we drop it. Yet, over here in Aussie anyway, I would bet 9 times out of 10, even with new million dollar plus boats sold with all the latest gee wiz gadgetry in electronics etc (and rightly so), they will still have as standard issue off the shelf, a plough or Bruce/Claw type anchor, mainly because they are cheap and sit nicely on the bow roller - never mind how well they perform. This blinkered thinking amazes me....especially when it relates to one of the most important items on the vessel.

This was sort of underlined when they had the traditional auctioning off off the chart used for the Pacific Island trip I have just returned from on the Pacific Sun. The chart didn't have a mark on it. Why?.... because they use all the modern aids, and did not therefore even bother to mark daily positions on it - it was all there, saved in their (multiply redundant) GPSs etc. Amazing how they have adapted the technology now so tugs are not needed. What with 2 large bow thrusters and rear pod drives that swivel, she was able to dock, leave the dock, turn in her own length etc no trouble at all. Thats using NEW technology. The really interesting thing, and mainly why I've mentioned her, is the one time she had minor trouble was one anchorage off Mystery Island. A strong wind, lots of windage, and we dragged the first time with just one anchor down, and they needed to set both bow anchors. What is the design of the usual ship's anchor.......OLD as the hills.......one thing they have never changed basically over centuries. There are reasons of practicality re retrieval/stowage etc, and they rely on huge weight of course, but compared to the weight of a boat of that size, the chain and anchor are light, compared to our boats, so a better design, even tho a challenge.......makes you wonder.....?

PS. The chart went for $A450, proceeds towards the recent mine tragedy in NZ, where some 29 men lost there lives in a mine gas explosion in Greymouth.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:01 PM   #84
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Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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Peter B wrote:"Point is that you NEED good seamanship but you don't NEED the latest do-dads."
I'll go along wtih this with a modification.* "You NEED good seamanship if you DON'T HAVE the latest do-dads, but you don't NEED the latest do-dads."

Captain Vancouver sailed from England to the Pacific Northwest in 1791.* He didn't have GPS or AIS or electronic chart plotters or radar or even Loran.* He didn't have a digital depth sounder, he had a weight on a rope.* And he made it.* He even made it back.* So yes, you can operate a boat very successfully with no electronic or electrical technology whatsoever.* But you better be pretty good at seamanship, navigation, docking, anchoring, and semaphore signals.

Today, as Peter points out, a modern ship can make the same voyage as Vancouver with a handful of people for crew and never have to break out a chart or call up a tug to get in and out of the berth.

Seamanship costs money, particularly when it comes to commercial operations.* If I as a shipowner can get a black box to do what a guy with a chart and a pencil can do, guess which way I'm gonna go?* If nothing else, I only need one black box where I need perhaps three humans to cover the operating shifts.* And I don't have to pay the black box, I don't have to feed the black box, I don't have to provide medical coverage for the black box, and I don't need to come up with a pension for the black box.

The two major drivers of technology when it comes to transportation are reducing operating costs and reducing the risk of human error.* And humans being what they are, the surest way to reduce the risk of human error is to get rid of the human.

A lot of the kids walking around with their heads buried in their iPhones and iPads and who can understand multi-layered computer languages as easily as we understand English will someday want boats of their own.* And when they go shopping for one, they're going to want the same level of technology they're used to in every other aspect of their lives.

Things like charts and Chapman's will be displays in the Smithsonian and today's kids will take their grandkids there and say, "See what you're great, great grandad had to use to go out to the islands?"

Today's boats are tomorrow's Conestoga wagons.* Not a lot of call for "oxmanship" these days, is there?* "Seamanship" as we define it today will eventually go the same way.



-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 29th of December 2010 09:25:50 PM
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:21 PM   #85
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

This is quite a thread....that's all I gotta say....
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:25 PM   #86
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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This is quite a thread....that's all I gotta say....
And yet know one has figured out WTF a*maniquin*is doing in that pic!!!! *
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:47 PM   #87
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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nomadwilly wrote:That makes less sense than what FF said. Any fool can determine that what FF is saying is that all the latest trinkets and new generation stuff won't make up for good seamanship.
I guess you missed the "So, if we are to apply FF style*"logic"part of the post ...

And here's a newsflash - all the latest trinkets and new generation stuff do a great job of making up for what many of FF's generation lump together as their version of "seamanship."

I think Marin described it quite well, moving a boat around safely doesn't require years before the mast or the ability to single hand a schooner around the Horn. Need I remind anyone we are talking about recreational vessels that normally only operate in good daytime weather very close to land?

*
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:49 PM   #88
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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Woodsong wrote:
And yet know one has figured out WTF a*maniquin*is doing in that pic!!!! *
Does there have to be a reason? Sometimes whimsy is enough.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:01 PM   #89
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

LOL Rick...Indeed!! *

<table style="font-size:11px;color:#000000;" class="genmed" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;" width="100">

The world can always use more Whimsy!


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Old 12-29-2010, 09:17 PM   #90
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

Some excellent*"up-to-date" books on seamanship have been written by Steve Dashew. I loved Surviving the Storm. The basis of his FPB design is rooted in big waves and how to evade them. So how is this done? By understanding weather patterns, inherent boat speed and on board communications with good weather routers.

Marin - These publications and designs*by Dashew are "new" in comparison to Chapman and Beebe.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:28 PM   #91
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

All you need is high tech eh?

Well, I think you kids are LOST.

Mind if I wander around and see where it takes you?
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:06 AM   #92
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

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nomadwilly wrote:Mind if I wander around and see where it takes you?
No problem.* But by the time you use "seamanship" as defined by Chapman & Company to get to where we are, we'll have used high-tech, punched a few buttons, and be well on our way to our next destination

*
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:15 AM   #93
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

"And here's a newsflash - all the latest trinkets and new generation stuff do a great job of making up for what many of FF's generation lump together as their version of "seamanship.""

You cant tell me that a gent selling his charts , with out a mark on them after a cruise was a good seaman.

Lazy sure , but not even using a pencil is placing the vessel at risk when a fuse pops.

Perhaps its always CAVU to the moon where he travels ,and the sun never sets, but its still not rational seamanship.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:09 AM   #94
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RE: Let me help you sell your boat!!!

Sorry folks...this thread is the definition of "ad nauseum" as it relates to being off topic....she's done.
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