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Old 09-29-2013, 02:21 AM   #1
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Lessons we learned at the Lido Show...

So, this week we ventured off of our mountain perch and down to Newport Beach to attend the Lido Boat Show. It was our first time stepping onto a lot of the boats we've been looking at and we found it incredibly valuable. Among the things we learned (in no particular order)...

1) We like a little bit bigger boat than we'd been eying. We'd been mostly looking at boats in the 40-45' range. Turns out we really prefer something a little bit bigger. Our favorite boats were all in the 48-55 foot range.

2) Grand Banks are gorgeous, but not for us. We walked on two Grand Banks, one in the mid-30 range and one just over 50'. Participating in this forum, the reverence that many people hold for these fine ships is obvious. While we thought they were well built and beautifully appointed, we just didn't love the layout. Not every boat can be for everyone and it turns out that we're not GB people.

3) If we could afford the Hi Star 52' Pilot House we would probably own one right now.

4) A Fleming 65 is the ultimate reward for a lifetime of hard work. Wow. I mean seriously 'wow!'

5) We've spent a lot of time looking at the Carver 450 Voyager. There were none at the show but, to our delight (and perhaps the ultimate chagrin of our pocketbook) there was a 530 Voyager. My 'admiral-in-waiting' absolutely fell in love. Something to be said for that. (we also walked on their upscale line, a 'marquis' that cost literally 10 times as much but that we liked less.

6) A lot of brokers are either idiots or assess... then there were a couple which we would be more than thrilled to work with. I imagine this is true with any relationship as personal as the person working to help fulfill your dreams. There are going to be few, and only a few, that make a perfect match. But right now there are two: an ex-stock broker named Alex and an older woman named Susan that we both felt comfortable with and though they don't know it they are vying for our future 10%.

7) We found that we definitely prefer a pilot house. The helm as part of the salon just wasn't a design that did it for us. Then, randomly, we ran into some friends at the show and they showed us their boat-- their boat was gorgeous, a 50-some foot off-shore cruiser with the helm in the salon. This worked perfectly for them.

8) Same idea on the cockpit configuration. We really love a set up where the swim step leads directly into the cockpit via a transom door with few or no steps. We walked a 49' Gulf Star that just didn't do it for us at all and the ladder leading steeply up was a big part of the reason why. But, again, they wouldn't make them if there weren't demand for them. Our preferences aren't informed in any way, save informed by what we prefer.

Anyway, these are just our stream-of-conscious impressions. I'm certain we will know more soon, but we had a blast making the trip down and about.

Shanty
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:05 AM   #2
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Interesting thoughts Shanty, and very similar to my own views. Sadly, for most of us, money is an object, otherwise I too would be looking at the 45-50' range, as that big you can literally have exactly what you want. However, for most of us, a more modest size is mandated by the size of the pocket. But it is interesting hearing someone not yet (or presently) owning a boat, giving a fresh honest first impression.
Of course another downside to big, apart from initial price, is all other bills are also big, especially maintenance, fuel and berthing...
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Old 09-29-2013, 04:48 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Shantyhag View Post
Turns out we really prefer something a little bit bigger. Our favorite boats were all in the 48-55 foot range.


Shanty

Don't know the southern west coast boating experience as to marinas, anchorages and mooring fields. But on the east coast the 48-55 foot range has definite advantages and definite disadvantages. The trick is to figure out which will be important to you. Few 55 foot boats can make the Great Loop or even more important do the Canadian canals. There are a number of mooring fields which limit boats by length. The majority of transient slips in marinas are for boats in the 36 to 50 ft range. These are some of the negatives in addition to cost of maintenance. The benefits of course are room to have everything you want on the boat, and likely a sea keeping ability which will be greatly enjoyed on the Pacific Coast.

Think hard about what you are actually going to do with the boat. Where and for how long you are going to take it on trips is important. Then ask owners of similar size boats the problems they have with using their boats in those areas. See if these problems will affect you.

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Old 09-29-2013, 07:21 AM   #4
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Always thought I wanted a pilothouse....would if I always sailed with a crew and more round the clock...

On my last 2 trips saw that a 40 something with helm in the saloon and just 2 aboard (especially if a couple), and just 4-8 hr motoring stints...especially if one person does most of the driving... was a more user friendly setup.

I relate it to sailing when it's nippy or wet...some poor slob steers topside while the other(s) are munching popcorn and reading in comfort below...sure that's the extreme but I found it to be true of smaller pilothouse boats as well...you can be more isolated than you want to be....sure it depends...just make sure it's for you...

On a 50 and up..I would always try and have more people along so the isolated pilothouse may be more desirable.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:30 AM   #5
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We liked all the features you described.

The size, the pilothouse, the cockpit.

Boats that come to mind offhand with that configuration are:

Hatteras LRC
Defever 49
Bayliner 45
Bayliner 4788, Meridian 490 (same boat)
Sea Ranger
Nordic (my neighbor has a nice Nordic)
Canoe Cove
Delta also made a really nice semi custom boat.

These boats can be purchased, in great condition for between a low of around 100 going up to around 250, with the meridian 490 toping out the price possibly higher because they are newer.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:44 PM   #6
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Sadly, for most of us, money is an object...
Of course another downside to big, apart from initial price, is all other bills are also big, especially maintenance, fuel and berthing...
Too true, Peter. And for us too. (We're definitely hoping at this point that the improving housing market isn't exactly mirrored by the rebound of the used boat market. Thank goodness for returning equity!)

There is one marina that we've looked at here in SoCal that jumps exponentially in cost when one graduates from 42' to 43'. We haven't looked at many, so I can't say whether that's common or not, but the fact that bigger boats bring some bigger costs isn't lost on us (or, unfortunately, without regard).

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Think hard about what you are actually going to do with the boat. Where and for how long you are going to take it on trips is important. Then ask owners of similar size boats the problems they have with using their boats in those areas. See if these problems will affect you...
In this you are exactly right, Marty. We're still at the beginning of our research. As it happens, the couple that we ran into at the show, the couple with the beautiful offshore cruiser, told us there that they had a sailboat for three years that they used to do the Panama Canal. We hadn't given sailboats more than a passing thought because of the additional skill sets required, but their argument about costs hit home. Still not what we're thinking about, but it did make us pause. We have TONS more questions to ask and answer before we plop down any coin.

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Always thought I wanted a pilothouse...

On my last 2 trips saw that a 40 something with helm in the saloon and just 2 aboard... especially if one person does most of the driving... was a more user friendly setup.
See, this is the sort of thing to which we need to give some weight. That isolation seemed a benefit of sorts, especially given that we are planning on living aboard. Having an extra space, even if it's only a few steps, that we could use to separate ourselves if need be seems like a real plus. But I hadn't considered the ramifications of long trips. I will say that, instinctively for both of us, we seemed to like the pilothouse idea better.

One boat we were on, and I can't remember exactly what it was, had an interesting layout: single helm on the flybridge and the space where a second helm would have been located in the pilothouse was instead used for one of the nicest galleys we saw that day. It was gorgeous-- and being chef/owners of a restaurant the galley is important to us-- but for some reason we couldn't really wrap our hearts around the single helm idea.

(One last question for any/all: is it Saloon or Salon? I've seen both and heard both, but is there consensus on which is proper?)

(Response from the Admiral-In-Waiting: "Yeah, but couldn't you just hang out in the pilothouse... pilothouses are sexy!" I'm probably not the only one who thinks that settles that.)

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We liked all the features you described...
The size, the pilothouse, the cockpit.
Kevin, I'd be lying if I said that you hadn't helped us shape some of these preferences in just the short time we'd been communicating and reading your input here. We were truly hoping that the 4788 was going to be in attendance at the show. It wasn't, alas. The only Bayliner that we saw was "very small" (relative, I know) at 32ish feet.

One of the brokers we mentioned in the OP was sure that she knew of one in San Diego that we could explore. We were hoping to get to see one in Long Beach over the weekend, but the broker for that boat was too tied up in getting ready for the event to meet us. Understandable.

So we haven't yet had that pleasure. Your list does widen our scope a little bit, so thank you for that.

And thanks to all for their responses, both here and elsewhere. This forum and its participants are first rate!
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:54 PM   #7
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The problem I have with most pilothouse boats over 45 ft. or so, is getting to the forward accommodations and the head. Most designs require you to go up stairs to the pilothouse and then down a circular stairway of 8 to 10 steps to the forward area. Most of these circular stairways are difficult to use especially for an old man who has to use the head about ever half hour.

They do this so they can have a huge midship master cabin, again something I don't see much advantage for. It is located under the pilothouse where it is difficult to get proper ventilation and light as it can't have an overhead hatch. I guess if you live in air conditioning all the time, it wouldn't matter.

Only the Kady Krogan's are consistent in avoiding this flawed design and a few others like the Bayliner/Meridian 490.

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Old 09-29-2013, 03:15 PM   #8
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5) We've spent a lot of time looking at the Carver 450 Voyager. There were none at the show but, to our delight (and perhaps the ultimate chagrin of our pocketbook) there was a 530 Voyager. My 'admiral-in-waiting' absolutely fell in love. Something to be said for that. (we also walked on their upscale line, a 'marquis' that cost literally 10 times as much but that we liked less.

6) A lot of brokers are either idiots or assess... then there were a couple which we would be more than thrilled to work with. I imagine this is true with any relationship as personal as the person working to help fulfill your dreams. There are going to be few, and only a few, that make a perfect match. But right now there are two: an ex-stock broker named Alex and an older woman named Susan that we both felt comfortable with and though they don't know it they are vying for our future 10%.

7) We found that we definitely prefer a pilot house. The helm as part of the salon just wasn't a design that did it for us. Then, randomly, we ran into some friends at the show and they showed us their boat-- their boat was gorgeous, a 50-some foot off-shore cruiser with the helm in the salon. This worked perfectly for them.

8) Same idea on the cockpit configuration. We really love a set up where the swim step leads directly into the cockpit via a transom door with few or no steps. We walked a 49' Gulf Star that just didn't do it for us at all and the ladder leading steeply up was a big part of the reason why. But, again, they wouldn't make them if there weren't demand for them. Our preferences aren't informed in any way, save informed by what we prefer.

Anyway, these are just our stream-of-conscious impressions. I'm certain we will know more soon, but we had a blast making the trip down and about.

Shanty
Of course your wife is going to like the Carvers, and probably Sea Rays too for that matter, as they both were designed to attract the eye (and pocketbook) of the ladies. And the Carver Voyager series was a rip roaring success right out of the box. They were the first boat for many buyers, who quickly moved up into the 80' up range. It certainly brought people to the hobby for sure. HUGE inside is why. But to get that space, the design is "cab forward" (as they call it in the car design world) which is great for interior volume, but all that exterior bulk acts like a giant sail. Think empty can on the water in how they get blown about. For grins go watch somebody try to dock one with a beam wind-even with bow and stern thrusters. GREAT condo's at the marina with a floating dock, but perhaps not the best cruising boat. Not that many on your coast as they had to be trucked from Wisconsin on two trucks (hull on one-deck and superstructure on the other) then assembled at the dealers. Which leads to another issue that's very disconcerting to those running the larger one's out in the ocean. The noise the joint makes working. Unlike other boats that aren't assembled at the dealer, these boats don't have bulkheads or structural interior attachments between the hull and superstructure. ALL that open space? Like being in a trash can being hit by a baseball bat=with the concussion of air being compressed as it hits waves. I've had professional Captains just flat out refuse to do a delivery on one offshore due to their previous experiences. The noises they make are just too disconcerting. Very weak gel-coat too! The best mechanic at Sun Power Diesel in Ft. Lauderdale, put's on a life preserver during a survey- if the chop is more than 3'. It's more a statement to his opinion of the boats than an actual safety concern, but he isn't shy about making his opinion known when buyers ask him why.
As far as Brokers.. I would think you want one that knows boats, that's taken about every design there is through a survey or five, and can tell you the history of the designs when new. Yeah, they might be asses, especially at a boat show because they've probably heard every question and statement a hundred times (I seriously quit going years ago, out of fear I was going to cut somebody's throat if I heard "I'm buying when we win the lottery" one more time!) or more. There's some excellent long time brokers down in San Diego, and up the coast from Newport. Hire one to be your advocate-and broker. These people that become brokers after failing at other careers really don't know much. It takes TIME and experience to cull the truth from the fallacies of the boat world. It's been my experience that the most ornery guy (especially in the boat yard!) is the most knowledgeable. Beware the glad handler you know.
Listen to Kevin Sanders- he know's what he speaks about Pilothouse boats.
Good luck!!
Oh=DOCKAGE. That should be your first question about boating out there. Where, and how much? I sold a 65'er to a fellow in Newport 12 years ago out of Hong Kong, and he discovered there was no dockage there as the ship approached, and had to buy a house to dock her. In hind sight that was a smart investment- the boat? Not-so-much.
There's TWO 4788's in Newport Beach for sale. One is right behind Ardel's office.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:40 PM   #9
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I'm 4,000 miles into the great loop and spend a lot of time with people who use their boats all day every day. My impression is that the pilot house folks really love the design. When you live on a boat, the ability to get away from each other is as important as seaworthiness. The layout also tends to work well for indoor entertaining. While I really like my double cabin, flybridge, lower helm in the saloon design, I can certainly see the appeal of the pilot house.

I urge you to have a clear vision about how you will use the boat. The beautiful boat with the large interior is often a horrible choice for long range cruising. Conversely, a perfect LRC can be an awful dock queen.

I grew up in Southern California and have boated there. I have cruised the San Juan Islands, Caribbean, and now the east coast, Great Lakes, and the river system. For those of you in SoCal,I mean no offense, but you have nowhere to go. Weekends in Catalina can get old fast. I mention this because, in my opinion, as live aboards your boat isn't likely to move often or far. With that in mind, I would make comfort the primary objective.

If on the other hand you are looking to do long range cruises, then consider spending time with folks that use their boats that way. Have your Admiral talk to the women who cruise. What they want in a boat changes a lot once underway. They will be happy to have you aboard and share their experiences.

Best of luck, fair winds, and have fun,
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:03 PM   #10
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Nice touch, Arch. Greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:33 PM   #11
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Most cohesive thread I've seen regarding straight thinking future boat purchasers and straight talking experienced boat owners. This is a pleasure to read! My thanks to OP and all P's thereafter! Best Luck in Boat Choice!
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:55 AM   #12
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My wife has a hip problem which requires few stairs and NO steep stirs, which the pilot house with the state rooms forward provides. 4 steps down to the staterooms, and 3 steps up to the pilot house with plenty of hand holds through out the boat. The pilot house was the only design that met her limitations. 17 years living aboard.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:29 PM   #13
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Greetings,
Mr. Art. I agree...But, but...where's the thread creep????

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Old 10-01-2013, 12:25 PM   #14
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Of course your wife is going to like the Carvers, and probably Sea Rays too for that matter, as they both were designed to attract the eye (and pocketbook) of the ladies... HUGE inside is why... but all that exterior bulk acts like a giant sail. Think empty can on the water in how they get blown about... GREAT condo's at the marina with a floating dock, but perhaps not the best cruising boat.
Thanks, PHK, for weighing in here. Interestingly, maybe, we both liked the Carver quite a bit, we also walked several Sea Rays and neither of us liked them at all. (My 10 YO daughter, on the other hand made a point out of picking out her cabin on each and every boat we stepped aboard).

And you're right, it's the beautiful interior that we loved. The 530 had the master midship and you're right again about the lack of hatches. Didn't bother us then, but wonder if it would long-term? We really liked the layout of the cabin itself, my wife loving the separate stalls for shower and head.

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Not that many on your coast as they had to be trucked from Wisconsin on two trucks (hull on one-deck and superstructure on the other) then assembled at the dealers. Which leads to another issue that's very disconcerting to those running the larger one's out in the ocean. The noise the joint makes working... ALL that open space? Like being in a trash can being hit by a baseball bat... I've had professional Captains just flat out refuse to do a delivery on one offshore due to their previous experiences. The noises they make are just too disconcerting. Very weak gel-coat too!
The bit about being trucked on two trucks was news to me, though it makes perfect sense.

I've read quite a bit both positive and negative about "the ride." The people that own them seem to like them quite a bit, many saying they wouldn't trade them for anything except another Carver. They talk about them taking fairly rough chop with relative ease. (Now, a lot of those people's primary experience is on Lake Michigan (which makes sense, given their Milwaukee birth...) I learned to sail on Lake Michigan, where I raced Hobie Cats as a kid in high school and it can get rough, but I'm not certain one can compare it to offshore cruising). Those that are down on them, at least a lot of times, seem to have formed their opinions based on friend-of-a-friend experience with some previous model. This is ONLY from what I've read. I can't say with any first hand knowledge. What you say makes a lot of sense.

On the Gel Coat, Pascoe-- for what his writing is worth, and I DON'T want to reopen this can of worms-- would agree, at least on the one Carver he reviewed. The thin glass he reports did have me looking for hull schematics, which I have not to-date been able to find.

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I urge you to have a clear vision about how you will use the boat. The beautiful boat with the large interior is often a horrible choice for long range cruising. Conversely, a perfect LRC can be an awful dock queen...
Arch, we are hearing this quite a lot... "what do you want to do with your boat?" What's funny is that Catalina isn't really even on our radar. I'm certain that we will end up making plenty of trips there as we get to know our boat, whatever she may end up being, but we much more imagine ports south. Baja and below. Probably cruises up the coast as well. I'm not sure if this is considered LRC, but I imagine there will be days (and nights) at sea.

(This is one of the reasons we've been asking questions about stabilizers from those that have them/planned on them... we haven't seen any Carvers listed with them at all, though surely some have installed them. I know KS was working on installing them on his Bayliner, where they seem to be more commonly added.)

But, while we don't want to envision our experience as 'Dock Queens'-- the ability to pick-up and go is a big part of the attraction of this lifestyle-- the reality is that the first duty of our boat will be as a home. We need a boat that not only performs on the water-- important!-- but performs admirably at the marina. Finding the right boat for us that performs this double duty is why we're taking our time with this search.

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If on the other hand you are looking to do long range cruises, then consider spending time with folks that use their boats that way. Have your Admiral talk to the women who cruise. What they want in a boat changes a lot once underway. They will be happy to have you aboard and share their experiences.
And that is one bit of excellent advice! Thank you, again.

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...The pilot house was the only design that met her limitations. 17 years living aboard.
Phil Fill, when I first started reading this forum, and saw your avatar, I used to wonder in passing why we would ever want or need a boat as big as your beautiful 58' Roughwater. I'd refer you back to the OP here and say "Now, I know!"

We don't like the ladders; stairs-- even a little bit steep-- are much preferable. We're not (yet) at the point where we have physical limitations that prevent us from using them, but my wife has a thing about ladders even on solid ground.

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Mr. Art. I agree...But, but...where's the thread creep????
Thank you, both, Art and RTF... As to Thread Creep, I did open that up in my question about 'salon' vs 'saloon'. Nobody bit, but the bait was there.



Thanks again, all, for your great input. Much appreciated and believe me when I say that we roll it ALL into the mix.

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Old 10-01-2013, 12:43 PM   #15
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Also, PHK, your advice on Brokers didn't fall on deaf ears. Experience is a huge must, absolutely.

I will tell you that the only time we heard the 'Lotto' joke, and we heard it all day long, was from Brokers. It's one of the things that annoyed us to no end. Perhaps they were just being preemptive?
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:33 PM   #16
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We have a Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge that we bought after looking at many boats for many years. And no, I'm not put off by your comments about not liking the SR's you looked at. No one boat meets/fits everyone's needs/wants/desires. The 550 is definitely NOT a long range cruiser, the biggest limitation being fuel capacity (700 gallons).

That being said, it's a good coastal cruiser which is what we wanted. It rides well in a 5'-6' wave, but when the wind is howling it can be a wet ride.

In June of this year I helped take a Bayliner 5788 from Seattle to Stockton, CA. While out in the Pacific (12 miles offshore) we were in 4'-7' waves and I was amazed at how much the boat rolled around in those waves. It felt like a cork on top of the sea, compared to mine. I asked the owner of the boat how much it weighed and, while I don't recall its dry weight, I do recall thinking it was about 10,000 pounds lighter than mine.

We have dual helms in our boat and I like that. I drive from the upper helm about 98% of the time, only using the lower helm when it's over 100* or near freezing temps. It's nice having the option.

We bought our boat in MI and had it shipped (two trucks, two trailers) from there to Portland, OR to be reassembled and additional equipment added. If you have any questions specific to the shipping, fire away or PM me.

You're going about your future purchase the right way. I have one main rule I give to people looking at buying a boat for the first time....
"Buy your second boat first."

By that I mean that many people don't do their due diligence and buy a boat because it's pretty rather than buying one that will fit their needs. They use it for a year or two then trade it for what they should have bought in the first place....usually at a great expense.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:13 PM   #17
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Carvers, Bayliners and their cousins are great for shorter trips and enjoying the dock. If you have a desire to go anywhere beyond SoCal you may want to consider vessels that have long range capability and smaller less maintenance cost engines. Sooner or later range and low gph may become important to you.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:31 PM   #18
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Carvers, Bayliners and their cousins are great for shorter trips and enjoying the dock. If you have a desire to go anywhere beyond SoCal you may want to consider vessels that have long range capability and smaller less maintenance cost engines. Sooner or later range and low gph may become important to you.

Really?

My 4788 Bayliner holds 440 gallons of fuel.

At 9 knots I get a measured 1.5NMPG

At 8 knots I get a measured 1.75NMPG


With a 20% fuel reserve that equates to over 600NM of range at 8 knots, and over 500NM at 9 knots.

There is nowhere in North America that requires more than what, 250NM of range to complete.

If we make the limiting factor accurate weather forecasting, 72 hours is generally accepted as the 100% weather window. At 8 knots thats 576 NM. So, even if you needed the range (which you do not) my boat has the capability to cruise at displacement speed for over the 72 hour accurate forecast window.

There are allot of great things about Full displacement boats, such as generally the ability to travel on days that a SD boat might choose to stay at the dock. This is not so much as a safety issue, as a comfort issue. The simple fact is that most Full Displacement boats will be comfortable in rougher conditions.

On the other hand a faster boat can allow someone leave port and make it to the next port, inside a shorter duration weather window. For example, lets take a typical run up the coast of 100NM. There's a weather front moving in tonight. We both leave the dock at say 08:00 AM. At 8 knots the Full displacement boat will be there at 8:30PM. The Semi displacement boat at 15 knots will be there at 2:45PM, in plenty of time to make safe harbor before dark, and before the weather moves in.

The same concept applies to general travel on the west coast. Its well known that the winds pick up in the afternoon, and the seas can get really snotty, just from "sea breeze" in many locations. Well, with a little speed, you can leave the dock at a reasonable hour, and be tied up having a cocktail while your friend in the Full Displacement boat is braving the big seas.

But, lets remember one thing...

If the OP's goal is coastal cruising, any boat he, and his admrial picks will have the fuel range to go anywhere they want to go. They have to decide what their actual goals are, and pick the best boat for them to meet those goals.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:56 PM   #19
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Just being a wanker....

from Great Loop notes....

Our fuel concern: Our fuel concern involves two key Marina locations on the Great Loop.
The first one of course is Hoppies Marina which is located at mile 158 on the Upper Mississippi River. If Hoppies
were to close, then the 250 miles distance between fuel becomes 320 miles from Grafton Landing to Green Turtle
Marina on the Tennessee-Tombigbee route.
Furthermore, If Hoppies closed, it would add another 440 mile leg between fuel stops on the Lower Mississippi River
route, as the distance between Grafton on the Upper Mississippi River and Mud Island Marinas at Memphis on the
Lower Mississippi River (Mile Marker 735.8) is 440 miles. The same distance between fuel from Memphis, TN and
the very only and next Marina (Seabrook Marina) on the Gulf ICW.
Bobby's Fish Camp is another concern. Bobby passed away lin 2010. His daughter is now trying to keep the camp
going. If Bobby's stops selling fuel, this adds a distance between fuel stops on the Tennessee-Tombigbee route of
370 miles between Demopolis Yacht Basin and Eastern Shore Marina at Fairhope, AL or Dog Bay Marina in Mobile
Bay. Therefore, these two rather isolated fuel stops are the reasons we highly recommend a 400 mile cruising range,
along with calling ahead. We obviously love both these locations and the people (Lora at Bobby's and Fern at
Hoppies) but still, under the circumstance combined with current economic conditions, we feel that marine fuel at both
these locations could become unavailable


Really though...those distances are probably why I'll never do the Great Loop...if it's that far between fuel stops...how far is it between FUN stops?????
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Just being a wanker....

from Great Loop notes....

Our fuel concern: Our fuel concern involves two key Marina locations on the Great Loop.
The first one of course is Hoppies Marina which is located at mile 158 on the Upper Mississippi River. If Hoppies
were to close, then the 250 miles distance between fuel becomes 320 miles from Grafton Landing to Green Turtle
Marina on the Tennessee-Tombigbee route.
Furthermore, If Hoppies closed, it would add another 440 mile leg between fuel stops on the Lower Mississippi River
route, as the distance between Grafton on the Upper Mississippi River and Mud Island Marinas at Memphis on the
Lower Mississippi River (Mile Marker 735.8) is 440 miles. The same distance between fuel from Memphis, TN and
the very only and next Marina (Seabrook Marina) on the Gulf ICW.
Bobby's Fish Camp is another concern. Bobby passed away lin 2010. His daughter is now trying to keep the camp
going. If Bobby's stops selling fuel, this adds a distance between fuel stops on the Tennessee-Tombigbee route of
370 miles between Demopolis Yacht Basin and Eastern Shore Marina at Fairhope, AL or Dog Bay Marina in Mobile
Bay. Therefore, these two rather isolated fuel stops are the reasons we highly recommend a 400 mile cruising range,
along with calling ahead. We obviously love both these locations and the people (Lora at Bobby's and Fern at
Hoppies) but still, under the circumstance combined with current economic conditions, we feel that marine fuel at both
these locations could become unavailable


Really though...those distances are probably why I'll never do the Great Loop...if it's that far between fuel stops...how far is it between FUN stops?????
I'm no great loop expert, but we can what if, this thing to death, on what if this and this marina closed.

Not to digress though, but my comments were regarding ocean boating, so im sure you are just having fun
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