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Old 01-22-2015, 10:16 AM   #1
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length

Many boat charges are based upon length (e.g. haul out, bottom painting, dockage, etc.). Is this typically the LWL or the LOA (including swim platform and pulpit) or the nominal length based upon the manufacturer's model
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:30 AM   #2
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Docking is LOA usually.

For bottom paint I would only include the length of what needs to be painted. If someone wanted to charge me for bottom paint based on length including my bow pulpit I think I'd have an issue with it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:55 AM   #3
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Docking is LOA usually.

For bottom paint I would only include the length of what needs to be painted. If someone wanted to charge me for bottom paint based on length including my bow pulpit I think I'd have an issue with it.
Yet the Mo _ _ _ _ _ _ s try don't they?!!!! I've had many a fight with boatyards over this issue. Why the hell you trying to charge for overhangs that you're not painting? Particularly bothered me was when I took in my 15' tender to paint and they would charge me for 15' but the boat is only 4' wide. If the normal boats they paint ARE 15' wide- then why aren't they charging me for 4' instead of 15'? The amount of actual paint used was tiny, but they charged for huge. For sailboats where there's a pretty small footprint forward with narrow beams- it was rather galling to be charged the same as powerboats which were wide their whole length.
You know what I learned? That some boatyard managers (mostly in Ft. Lauderdale and that Greek yard in St. Augustine!!!) just don't respect you unless you put up a fight complete with yelling and screaming- THEN they like you and give you a good deal. They remind me of my Italian ex-wife!!!
Do we always have to fight first, is that what turns you on? Apparently so.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:07 AM   #4
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That's why I paint the bottom of my boat myself.
I don't have to pay anyone and I know how many coats of paint go on.
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Old 01-22-2015, 01:52 PM   #5
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I'd have to go and find my invoice - but if I recall correctly, the last time I had my sailboat bottom painted my invoice was itemized - including things like haulout, gallons of paint used, rags, disposal, labor, etc. I don't believe it was a fixed cost by length.

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Old 01-22-2015, 04:05 PM   #6
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One of the nice things about the work boat yard I use, bottom paintings price is paint, plus roller cover, a pan liner, roll of masking tape, maybe a brush, and actual labor time.

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Old 01-24-2015, 07:41 AM   #7
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The real con comes with beach ball fat boats.

Sorry sir your 40 ft boat is to fat so will require a 50 ft slip to fit.

And you pay for the 50 ft!
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:00 AM   #8
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LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included. LOA is among quite a few nautical terms which, colloquially, are often used incorrectly. This official definition will be lost on our dull friends who operate boat yards and marinas, so you may well consider not even butting your head against that brick wall.
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:06 AM   #9
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The better places usually specify in writing what the intent is...but there is no standardization from docking to painting....always best to ask and negotiate if necessary.

However, many places will stiff you as respect you if you question their pricing. Try to find out what works best for each place before you walk in.....
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:54 AM   #10
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LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included. LOA is among quite a few nautical terms which, colloquially, are often used incorrectly. This official definition will be lost on our dull friends who operate boat yards and marinas, so you may well consider not even butting your head against that brick wall.
Well, first you misquoted as forward most part of the stern to the aftermost part of the transom would be 0" as the transom is the surface that forms the stern. Stern is the aft most part of the boat.

Now, second, the Chapman definition of what is included and excluded no longer holds in all situations. The USCG and other organizations have formed their own rules of what counts and doesn't in LOA. And marinas very clearly spell it out for their purposes. And all that makes sense. If you're talking about the actual structure of the boat then excluding platforms and pulpits and other extensions makes sense. If there is an integral platform that is part of the structure then it's different. But when you're looking at the dock space required, then everything must be counted. You have boats out there with 5' swim platforms. As a result just for clarity, most builders now show both numbers. LOA without and LOA with. Some refer to LOA with as maximum length. But marinas are very specific in defining it for their purposes and to argue would be foolhearty because you'd be wrong.

Of course then we complicate it more with waterline length tossed in and model numbers. It is important to know each measurement. As an example of where it can be an issue, a 54' Grand Banks has an LOA without extensions of 54'4" but a maximum length of 61'5". A few canals behind me have maximum lengths of 55' for the slips. A man recently bought a GB 54' only to find out he couldn't keep it at his house. And, yes, when you have narrow canals an extra 7' sticking out makes a huge difference.
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:26 AM   #11
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I had no problem getting the yard to agree to measure the bottom and charge for that.
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:40 AM   #12
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Well, first you misquoted as forward most part of the stern to the aftermost part of the transom would be 0" as the transom is the surface that forms the stern. Stern is the aft most part of the boat.

If you read Captain K's post again you will see it was you that misread his post. He used the word "stem" not "stern" to describe the forward most part of the boat.
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:56 AM   #13
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Greetings,
Mr. CP is correct Mr. BB. Have another coffee...
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:56 AM   #14
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If you read Captain K's post again you will see it was you that misread his post. He used the word "stem" not "stern" to describe the forward most part of the boat.
You are correct and my apologies to him. Sure looked like stern with the font I'm using. Even now, only notice the difference side by side. Maybe I'm older than I thought...losing my vision....
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:04 AM   #15
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A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain K View Post
LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included.

Well, yes, but...

Our boat is nominally 42' (model name) and the manufacturer's stated LOA is 44' 6" "length overall w/o swim platform"). The bow pulpit is sorta-kinda part of the hull, not an additional bolt-on, so probably all well and good up to that point even though it differs somewhat from the above.

But our CG document says 46.2' -- nearly equating to the manufacturer's spec of 46' 1" WITH swim platform, which is not molded in an integral part of the hull structure.

Doesn't make much difference to me one way or the other, just demonstrating that "official " definitions and reality sometimes vary, anyway.

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Old 01-24-2015, 10:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by hmason View Post
A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:16 AM   #18
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A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!


From time to time we contemplate a larger boat. Then we spend a day or two washing, waxing, polishing and detailing and are convinced it is more than adequate for our mission.

B&B, if it is any consolation I read it properly the first time but after your post had to read it 3 more times. Had to be absolutely sure my bifocals where not deceiving me before stepping out on that limb
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:19 AM   #19
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A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!
I have to laugh as boat tales sometimes go like fish tales. What was paid for it. Every aspect. I knew a dealer on the lake well and one day I was there, he'd just encountered the strangest situation. Customer comes in and says I want to buy a boat just like the one Jason bought. Same deal, everything. So, dealer excited as he'd about to make the easiest sale of his life. He immediately writes up a sales contract identical to Jason's. The customer is outraged when he sees $34,000. Yells that Jason only paid $30,000 and he can't believe the dealer would try to take advantage of him like that. Finally with his integrity on the line, he gets a copy of Jason's contract and shows it to the customer. Now the customer is irate but at Jason, calling him every name he can think of. He calms down a bit and apologizes to the dealer. They says, can you give me $1 off so I can tell that $%##$ I got a better deal than he did. I won't tell him the amount. The dealer says, "Ok. Now you know he'll come to complain so when he does I'll refund him a dollar."
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post

From time to time we contemplate a larger boat. Then we spend a day or two washing, waxing, polishing and detailing and are convinced it is more than adequate for our mission.

B&B, if it is any consolation I read it properly the first time but after your post had to read it 3 more times. Had to be absolutely sure my bifocals where not deceiving me before stepping out on that limb
I read it three times too because I knew something was wrong. But it's like proofreading your own work. Once I read it as "STERN" it was fixed in my brain as such.

Too small when lots of guests
Too big when paying slip fees
Too small when conditions turn rough
Too big when maneuvering in tight areas
Too small when preparing a fancy meal
Too big when cooking for two

That's the thing. All are compromises. People come searching for the "perfect" boat and you just have to tell them to start over as there is no such thing.

But, I have to ask those living on land. Do any of you have a "perfect" home? We love ours and consider it perfect for us. But there are days it's too big and days it's too small.
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