Left my boat in Stuart. Is that a good spot?

[firstbase]

Some random notes from someone down here...

Some docks are hurricane rated, Cat 3, Cat 4. Ask your marina. Not sure if ANY are rated for a Cat 5.

I have been told that most times the damage comes from your neighbor in the next slip breaking loose and taking out the dock and then your boat in domino fashion. You should worry as much about them as you do your own.

If you are joining a "Hurricane Club" at a yard you pay an upfront fee for membership which guarantees you a spot on land. You then pay for everything else, hauling, blocking, etc. BE AWARE that the ones I talked to REQUIRED you to be there PRIOR to a Hurricane Watch being issued. If you wait until a Hurricane Watch is issued then you are NOT guaranteed a spot.

Hurricane Club cost at Indiantown Marina went from $250 to $750 after Hurricane Matthew last year. Not sure they have spots left. I spoke with them in April and there were some left open but that is pretty early in the year.

The marina I moved to in Jupiter closes down at a certain point before the storm. No one in or out. Dockmaster suggest that we should pull the boat partially out of the slip, put out an anchor, tie off to more substantial concrete/open pilings there are across the way, etc. I'm not sure how this would work but it is what he suggests.

Sunset Bay, mentioned above, is a pretty packed marina. There are some slips open during the summer but they are filled up when season starts in the fall. We looked at moving there and were told that they could get us in for the summer but they had no annual slips available. Not sure how much space they would have for a hurricane temp slip. Depends on the timing I guess.

Sunset Bay, Loggerhead, the marinas on the St Lucie or are, to my mind, very exposed to winds. Nothing much around them to knock down any wind. At Loggerhead you stand on the dock and stare straight out with little more than a bend in the river between you and the ocean.

Flying into Florida before a hurricane seems like a bad plan. Airports go crazy at those times as do rental car companies and hotels. You would have to time your trip for after a warning but enough time before a watch (if you are a hurricane club member) to get the boat moved and then find a place to stay or get back out of town.

 

[FF]

"I would say in South Florida, probably 80% are in pretty good shape to handle hurricanes."

Not sure I have seen many marinas that can handle 15 or 20 ft of water above normal high tide.

 

[firstbase]

Have a friend in NJ who left his boat double tied in a slip during Hurricane Sandy. He was the only one in the water, everyone else was pulled. Came back after the storm to find his boat floating nicely in the slip and all of the ones that were pulled were in one big pile, many destroyed, up on land. There is a moral to that story. Not sure what it is.

 

[rwidman]

.... Not sure I have seen many marinas that can handle 15 or 20 ft of water above normal high tide.

I doubt you'll see them anywhere. And remember, this water isn't just sitting still, it's moving and full of debris including other docks and boats.

Then there's the strength of the docks themselves and the cleats. At Dawtaw, some of the docks floated over the pilings and washed away and some of the docks broke up in place. These were concrete floating docks.

Now if the docks don't float away or break up, how about the cleats? The ones on the docks and the ones on your boat? And what about the debris and other boats that float into or get tangled in your boat?

We cruised to FL, across the Okeechobee Waterway and back this spring. There was a path of destruction all the way down the east coast from Mathew. Private and public facilities were destroyed and abandoned boats were everywhere.

Mess with mother nature and you will lose. Move the boat to a safe place.

 

[BandB]

"I would say in South Florida, probably 80% are in pretty good shape to handle hurricanes."

Not sure I have seen many marinas that can handle 15 or 20 ft of water above normal high tide.

But in South Florida, on the ICW, we've never had 15 or 20' of surge so whether they can handle that much or not is really irrelevant.

 

[cardude01]

Sounds like you have some good options, from doing nothing to moving.

The only thing I would add is that I would NOT have a plan that required me to make a decision 3 days or even 2 days out.

If you were an hour's drive away, then you would have more options, but having to fly to Florida just before an hurricane. Furgetaboutit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, DON'T base the safety of your boat on a stupid weather forecast.

Either have the boat tied and ready where she is now or move her someplace she'll be secure no matter what, now. And leave her there until November.

Richard

Ok. I realize now my "move the boat right before a storm" plan is stupid. I kind of have a good hurricane hole available on the Okeechobee waterway, but it is on the west side of the lake. I realize now if a hurricane was projected to hit, I wouldn't be able to safely move it from Stuart to there due to flights, traveling across the lake in possible bad pre-hurricane weather, rental car availability, etc, etc.

I obviously was not thinking about this correctly when I decided to leave the boat in Stuart. I might have to cancel that slip and move it now for peace of mind. I agree with other posters that Sunset Bay marina seems to have very little protection from the wind.

 

[BandB]

I doubt you'll see them anywhere. And remember, this water isn't just sitting still, it's moving and full of debris including other docks and boats.

Then there's the strength of the docks themselves and the cleats. At Dawtaw, some of the docks floated over the pilings and washed away and some of the docks broke up in place. These were concrete floating docks.

Now if the docks don't float away or break up, how about the cleats? The ones on the docks and the ones on your boat? And what about the debris and other boats that float into or get tangled in your boat?

We cruised to FL, across the Okeechobee Waterway and back this spring. There was a path of destruction all the way down the east coast from Mathew. Private and public facilities were destroyed and abandoned boats were everywhere.

Mess with mother nature and you will lose. Move the boat to a safe place.

A path of destruction? Matthew didn't cause destruction in South Florida. It caused a little further up the Florida coast, but it's real damage was very northern FL, GA, and SC. Very different situations in terms of preparation and in terms of exposure to storms. Cardude is talking about South Florida, not Dataw in Beaufort, SC.

Moving a boat to a safe place? You mean on land where but without adequate tie downs and protection from other debris? You mean north, like NJ and NY where Sandy hit? You mean Nebraska? Certainly, you don't mean for Cardude to move it back home where the risk is higher than in South Florida?

You cruised across the Okeechobee. Some of us actually live in South Florida, know the history, know the risk, know the evacuation zones. I've also cruised up the coast. Just got back from a cruise up to Beaufort, NC. I've also been in SC when floods were taking place. I know the islands such as St. Simons hit hardest by Matthew and the areas like Thunderbolt and Myrtle Beach and Charleston where boats at marinas were fine.

I do believe in proper respect for hurricanes. However, it also needs to be based on facts and history and specific locations. I don't know that history specifically for Sunset Marina now the details of it's construction. I do know South Florida in general and know Fort Lauderdale area very well.

There are many of you who would have everyone in Florida move their boats to some magical unknown safe place that doesn't exist for six months of every year. Impractical. Impossible. Might as well not even own a boat.

Our boats are tied at this moment for hurricanes. Always prepared. We don't gamble on preparing when it's on the way. Frankly, if a hurricane is on it's way toward us, bearing down on us, a Category 5, then boats are the least of my thoughts. Of course, that hasn't happened in my lifetime. Andrew did hit Miami but being on land was definitely not an advantage as it was force more than surge. In Fort Lauderdale, the last significant damage was Wilma in 2005. It was 105 mph when it hit Fort Lauderdale and caused a good bit of damage on land, not on the water. Storm Surge and flooding, the 100 year number for our home is under 6'. I don't know where people are pulling 15 to 20' numbers, but sure no where around here.

 

[Wxx3]

I'm in the process of pulling Dauntless for the winter here in Hualtaco. This is in the southern edge of the Pacific Hurricane/cyclone area.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of East coast folks over having the boat in a marina in water, versus on the hard, if a hurricane was coming?

Presumably tied and secured for the worst in either location.

I ask because my impression was that Sandy destroyed a lot of boats that were I the hard. So it's certainly NOT a no brainer than land is better than water.

Or not?

Boats are after, are inherently less stable in land than in the water.

 

[Seevee]

Greetings,
Mr. 01. EXACTLY what Mr. WK said. Hurricane season, insurance etc. Keep your eye on this one...NOT Gert, the one coming in from off the coast of Africa.

Atlantic 5-Day Graphical Tropical Weather Outlook

While I'm not a hurricane worry wart, I'm doing some updates on my preparation right now. The trawler is new to me and I've worked out a plan to secure it.

Statistics says the vast majority of us will never suffer damage from a hurricane. Even insurance for a hurricane loss is not a good return. However, there's sure an argument to take reasonable precautions BEFORE things get bad, and often those preparations are pretty cheap.

My plan includes a bunch of extra lines, a few pilings (that will be useful all the time) and some anchors that won't move. Cheap.

BUT, If a cat I is forecast for my area, I'll bail out.

 

[Seevee]

That's kind of what I was thinking.

Flying into an anticipated hurricane is generally not a great strategy compared to remaining safe at home with family. Moving the boat out of a hurricane area by the time you arrive and considering it's speed, likely to be difficult and possibly dangerous.

Yes, a lot of risk to flying commercial, but if flying privately it can work. The commercial flights get cancelled, diverted, oversold, delayed and makes a mess. With a private plane, you're on your own schedule and can even get thru part of outer edges pretty easily...... certainly before the surface winds get to high. I've done it. And depending on the direction, you get one hell of a tail wind or head wind.

Trying to plan that in advance from a long distance, becomes a real pain with logistics, and perhaps a few false alarms because one can't wait until the last minute. Hurricane Charlie was a good example with a sudden turn last minute.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
I think the point has been made by several members that one could either be safe or in peril in the same location given the whims/peculiarities of any particular system (storm or docking/storage facility).

The best one can expect is to take reasonable care for any anticipated weather events, make doubly sure insurance is adequate and in place and worry about damages AFTER the fact.

Now, two systems to watch...Just sayin'...

Atlantic 5-Day Graphical Tropical Weather Outlook

 

[BandB]

I'm in the process of pulling Dauntless for the winter here in Hualtaco. This is in the southern edge of the Pacific Hurricane/cyclone area.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of East coast folks over having the boat in a marina in water, versus on the hard, if a hurricane was coming?

Presumably tied and secured for the worst in either location.

I ask because my impression was that Sandy destroyed a lot of boats that were I the hard. So it's certainly NOT a no brainer than land is better than water.

Or not?

Boats are after, are inherently less stable in land than in the water.

It does depend on the specifics, the marina, the location, and what "on land" really means. If it's a set up like Jarrett in NC, then it's an ideal set up. If I lived in Beaufort NC, I'd have a hurricane agreement with Jarrett. Bennett Brothers in NC has a good situation. If it's just lifting a boat onto stands without permanent type anchoring in the ground, still not above the surge line, then pretty useless. Noteworthy too is that Sandy was so far outside the declared hurricane zone everyone talks about.

If houses are destroyed by a hurricane, then boats in similar situations are likely to be in peril as well. Every area is different. If the storm is capable of reducing an entire neighborhood to rubble, then if it hits boats in the same way, they'll be tossed and splintered.

If you look at so much of the hurricane damage to boats over the years, it has been by very uncommon storms. NY and NY were hit two years in a row and Sandy was a most unusual storm. Andrew was equally unusual and quite opposite in that it was fast and relatively small but very powerful. The most destruction by it was inland. Katrina wasn't especially unique as Gulf Coast storms go in terms of the type storm, but was unique in terms of it's strength and surge level. Matthew was record setting in reaching CAT 5 the furthest south and in staying CAT 4 the longest.

Every area has different exposure. The outer banks of NC have no protection. South Florida has a great deal of protection in having the land barrier east of the ICW. In some areas with small numbers of boats, relocation is somewhat possible, but in other areas it's not. If you're on Lake Pontchartrain you can head north. In Southport, you can go up the Cape Fear. In Beaufort, you can go up the ICW. However, none of those solutions comes with guarantees as storms can be unpredictable.

As far as our decision in South Florida to keep our boats in the water, it's two fold. First, the water has historically been safe here. Surge is mild. Tides are not great. Marinas are well built. The ICW and inland marinas are protected. Second, there's really no other choice. There's nowhere to put all the boats in South Florida. Fortunately, history is on our side.

There is no area within 100 miles of a coast completely safe from hurricanes. You prepare, you protect your life. If you're in an evacuation zone, you evacuate.

If you're selecting a marina, ask about their history and their readiness. That doesn't guarantee anything, but it's the best you've got to go on.

 

[Sugardog]

Went through two hurricanes in '85 in Key West on my 40' Shucker, breezy to say the least. Worse than that, Andrew in Miami on dry land in '92.

 

[BandB]

I'd suggest people talking about Florida look at these depth and surge graphs.

https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/FlAtlCoastSurge.asp

You might find it very interesting to compare the potential surge in Fort Lauderdale to that on Lake Okeechobee. Amazing what can happen to a shallow lake. The difference between Okeechobee and Pontchartrain is lower likelihood plus locks.

 

[Seevee]

I'd suggest people talking about Florida look at these depth and surge graphs.

https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/FlAtlCoastSurge.asp

You might find it very interesting to compare the potential surge in Fort Lauderdale to that on Lake Okeechobee. Amazing what can happen to a shallow lake. The difference between Okeechobee and Pontchartrain is lower likelihood plus locks.

How can I change the location to the west coast of FL?

Overall, we are quite protected in St. Pete, as most of the storms miss us entirely. It's just the way they typically move. In 2005, which was probably the worst year in ~50 years, we had 4 hurricanes that threatened us and only one came overhead as a Cat 1. And it came from the southeast so surge was minimal.

Surge is our biggest threat, unless we get Cat 3 or 4 winds. And surge isn't bad unless the storm comes in from the west or southwest.

 

[BandB]

How can I change the location to the west coast of FL?

Overall, we are quite protected in St. Pete, as most of the storms miss us entirely. It's just the way they typically move. In 2005, which was probably the worst year in ~50 years, we had 4 hurricanes that threatened us and only one came overhead as a Cat 1. And it came from the southeast so surge was minimal.

Surge is our biggest threat, unless we get Cat 3 or 4 winds. And surge isn't bad unless the storm comes in from the west or southwest.

Here are all the maps.

https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/surge_images.asp

 

[Sugardog]

Yes, a lot of risk to flying commercial, but if flying privately it can work. The commercial flights get cancelled, diverted, oversold, delayed and makes a mess. With a private plane, you're on your own schedule and can even get thru part of outer edges pretty easily...... certainly before the surface winds get to high. I've done it. And depending on the direction, you get one hell of a tail wind or head wind.



Trying to plan that in advance from a long distance, becomes a real pain with logistics, and perhaps a few false alarms because one can't wait until the last minute. Hurricane Charlie was a good example with a sudden turn last minute.

Luckily CHARLIE was compact and a fast mover, I lived in Cape Coral at the time, if you were on Pine Is or Captiva, you got hit pretty hard. Even 10 mileS inland, it blew all the overhead doors off my 6,000 sq ft warehouse and "tweaked" it a bit. After Andrew in Miami. I used a ship container as my hurricane shelter behind my warehouse (22' above MHT. ) I lived in the Keys or south Fl for 35 years and never left. But I was always more prepared than the average Joe.

 

[Seevee]

Luckily CHARLIE was compact and a fast mover, I lived in Cape Coral at the time, if you were on Pine Is or Captiva, you got hit pretty hard. Even 10 mileS inland, it blew all the overhead doors off my 6,000 sq ft warehouse and "tweaked" it a bit. After Andrew in Miami. I used a ship container as my hurricane shelter behind my warehouse (22' above MHT. ) I lived in the Keys or south Fl for 35 years and never left. But I was always more prepared than the average Joe.

Agreed, be prepared, and overall not that hard. Might require some planning and extra stuff. My plan is to bail. After I've secured the boats, and sealed the doors/windows in the house. If the water hits in the 10 to 15 range, I'll get wet, or at least my stuff will.

 

[menzies]

Did I mention that we don't get hurricanes in Jacksonville?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. m. Not quite 100% accurate... Most Damaging Jacksonville Hurricanes & Tropical Storms

 

[Donsan]

Did I mention that we don't get hurricanes in Jacksonville?

We don't???

That is what I thought before we moved to North Florida. Hermine and Matthew changed my mind about that.

 

[menzies]

Hate to point out to you both (well actually I don't!) that the last hurricane to hit Jacksonville was in 1964.

Tropical storm winds, big seas from storms passing off shore, yes. But no direct hits.

People around here complain about how far out you have to go to fish the stream, well there is a silver lining to that!

Plus because we are geographically on an "inside elbow" it would require a storm moving nearly due west at our latitude to hit as those from the gulf are storms by the time they get to us, and those coming up the Atlantic tend to bounce off southern and central Florida and continue on to the central Atlantic coast.

Certainly my experience since first coming to Florida in 1990.

 

[Dougcole]

Hate to point out to you both (well actually I don't!) that the last hurricane to hit Jacksonville was in 1964.

Tropical storm winds, big seas from storms passing off shore, yes. But no direct hits.

People around here complain about how far out you have to go to fish the stream, well there is a silver lining to that!

Plus because we are geographically on an "inside elbow" it would require a storm moving nearly due west at our latitude to hit as those from the gulf are storms by the time they get to us, and those coming up the Atlantic tend to bounce off southern and central Florida and continue on to the central Atlantic coast.

Certainly my experience since first coming to Florida in 1990.

People say the same thing about Tampa, and said the same thing about Fort Myers area prior to Charlie. I'm sorry if I offend you, but it's pretty dumb to think that. Matthew showed that Jacksonville could easily be hit, if that storm had been 20 miles further West Jax would have gotten absolutely blasted.

No spot in the South Eastern US is immune to hurricanes.

 

[Donsan]

No spot in the South Eastern US is immune to hurricanes.

Absolutely.

 

[BandB]

Did I mention that we don't get hurricanes in Jacksonville?

I'm sure people are going to jump in to argue with you. However, the facts pretty much support you. Matthew passed 37 miles offshore with 110 mph winds where it passed. There was some St. Johns flooding and power lost but no hurricane hit.

Prior to that, in 1979, David passed 40 miles offshore with 95 mph winds.

1964, Dora, was the last hit of Jacksonville. 115 mph winds, passed 30 miles south. CAT 3 (barely).

1960, Donna, 105 mph, CAT 2.

1928, 90 mph, CAT 1. That was the famous Okeechobee Hurricane, as it hit West Palm with 145 mph winds, CAT 4. Had been CAT 5. Most severe damage was that Hurricane Hole known as Lake Okeechobee. Surge reached 20' on Okeechobee with it overflowing it's banks and hundreds of square miles flooded.

This is not to say Jacksonville won't get hit, just it historically hasn't been. The hundred year history is very good.

 

[BandB]

People say the same thing about Tampa, and said the same thing about Fort Myers area prior to Charlie. I'm sorry if I offend you, but it's pretty dumb to think that. Matthew showed that Jacksonville could easily be hit, if that storm had been 20 miles further West Jax would have gotten absolutely blasted.

No spot in the South Eastern US is immune to hurricanes.

Why did you say South Eastern US? Did we forget about Texas and Louisiana, and about NJ and NY? No area within 100 miles of the coast is immune. However, the facts are with Menzies on Jacksonville.

 

[Sugardog]

Why did you say South Eastern US? Did we forget about Texas and Louisiana, and about NJ and NY? No area within 100 miles of the coast is immune. However, the facts are with Menzies on Jacksonville.

Mother Nature leaves no stone un-turned.

 

[menzies]

Oh, trust me, I am not saying that Jax will never take a hit, that would be silly. Just that, with its geography and the positioning of the storm-attracting warm Stream water, it had advantages that other areas certainly do not.

 

[Dougcole]

Cardude, We keep our boat right next door to Sunset Bay, behind the little complex of houses/cottages just upriver. My boat is about 50 feet from the Sunset bay Dinghy dock.

I pulled out for Matthew, it was a lot of work, but I felt better about the boat being hauled than in our slip. Sunset Bay offers more protection than my slip does because of the break wall, but the surge could for sure get high enough to come over the wall. It was surprisingly rough a couple of weeks ago when that little tropical storm Emily came through by the way. Blew 40 for most of the night. I doubled up on lines.

Stuart is a nice place and Sunset Bay is a great marina. Walking into downtown is easy and fun. Nice place to jump to the Bahamas from as well. Not a ton of good anchoring out spots that I know of close by other than Peck Lake, which gets a lot of wakes, but there are likely plenty I don't know about as I haven't looked real hard either. We mainly go across to the Bahamas.

 

[cardude01]

Cardude, We keep our boat right next door to Sunset Bay, behind the little complex of houses/cottages just upriver. My boat is about 50 feet from the Sunset bay Dinghy dock.

I pulled out for Matthew, it was a lot of work, but I felt better about the boat being hauled than in our slip. Sunset Bay offers more protection than my slip does because of the break wall, but the surge could for sure get high enough to come over the wall. It was surprisingly rough a couple of weeks ago when that little tropical storm Emily came through by the way. Blew 40 for most of the night. I doubled up on lines.

Stuart is a nice place and Sunset Bay is a great marina. Walking into downtown is easy and fun. Nice place to jump to the Bahamas from as well. Not a ton of good anchoring out spots that I know of close by other than Peck Lake, which gets a lot of wakes, but there are likely plenty I don't know about as I haven't looked real hard either. We mainly go across to the Bahamas.

Hey I think I saw your boat in those slips near the mooring field. There was a big "slips for lease" sign on them.

Are they reasonable? Looks like a great spot.