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Old 07-26-2015, 10:50 AM   #1
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Leaking Windows or ...???

Hi Folks. Yesterday I looked at 1987 trawler that shows very well except for one issue - see the attached pictures. Do you think these water stains are from leaking window seals, or some kind of spill on the horizontal surface that then "sucked up" into the lower edges of the vertical surfaces? If its the latter it's a refinishing job I can do fairly easily. But if it's a window job, then I need a bit of advice - what's involved in resealing salon and pilothouse windows? Better done by a pro? Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated.

David
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:53 AM   #2
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Most likely windows, worse would be the cabin top leaking and finding it was down..but much less likely.
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:02 PM   #3
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No, it's not a spill. Looks like leaking windows to me. Believe me, I know leaky windows.

Choice between doing it yourself or a a pro would be thousands of dollars. This is a time consuming job that comes around every 20 or so years. Could be just running some latex caulking around the window or pulling it all out and rebuilding the wall and window.

From the pictures it doesn't look bad - every trawler of that era is going to have these problems. It's a matter of degree and your fastidious. A surveyor with a moisture meter could tell you how far down the bulkheads the moisture goes. Then the decision is up to you.
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:16 PM   #4
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"From the pictures it doesn't look bad - every trawler of that era is going to have these problems."

Not true. I owned a 1984 GB Which I sold in 2010 and it never had a window leak. I now own a 1996 GB and it does not have any window leaks.

Howard
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:19 PM   #5
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Thanks Al - that's what I was hoping to hear. The survey is scheduled for Friday, so the moisture will tell. BTW I just found a neat video on Youtube that shows how to remove water stains from teak veneer with a cloth and an iron! Who knew?
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:22 PM   #6
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Howard - perhaps that's just the difference between a Kha Shing and a GB. The Kha Shing's overall workmanship looks pretty good to my eye, but maybe they just didn't do windows that well.
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:26 PM   #7
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David, the good news is that it's fixable. If she surveys well, get an estimate on a professional repair and negotiate it out of the purchase price. Good luck with the survey. Howard
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Thanks Al - that's what I was hoping to hear. The survey is scheduled for Friday, so the moisture will tell. BTW I just found a neat video on Youtube that shows how to remove water stains from teak veneer with a cloth and an iron! Who knew?
Good luck...every piece of multi-layer veneer on my boat has been peeled off because it was falling of...or will be and resurfaced.

When I bought the boat all looked good except a spot or two.

After one freeze thaw cycle....the veneer started to crack and flake off everywhere.

I have no idea why, the plywood underneath is fine...just not the 4 layer veneer that was contact cemented on top.
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:40 PM   #9
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This is my next do it my self major project all the windows in the boat then to repair the veneer
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:02 PM   #10
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Sounds like it's a common problem.
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #11
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It is a common problem....
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:23 PM   #12
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With all respect to Howard, I think his GB's are the exception to the rule of those old boats. Most of the boats as old as mine have gone through at least one cycle of leaking windows. If they are plastic framed, they are likely to brittle to re-seal, that is, they will come apart when trying to reseal. Aluminum, maybe, but be ready to do something else if you've got to pull them to get to the leak. With today's materials, roughing up the frame and doing an exterior application around the perimeter might even stop it for a while, but eventually....$$. If you do end up with this boat and want to yank the windows, save yourself some time and labor with a Dremmel vibrating tool with the scraper and hooked knife attachments. Made cutting through the old sealant a 10 minute job vs. 2 hr. job. Meanwhile, find yourself a surveyor that loves his moisture meter and can tell you about the issue in general before you invest.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:29 PM   #13
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Thanks for the correction, Howard. You can help me pick out my next boat.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I have no idea why, the plywood underneath is fine...just not the 4 layer veneer that was contact cemented on top.
The 6mm ceiling is 1/64" teak veneer on top of a sheet of cheap Luan. It was not ever made to be waterproof. It was made to be easy to stick to the interior of the boat to make 'em look good. (and cover up a whole lot of stuff that should never be seen! It's called 'ceiling' in the trade. You can buy sheets of it from a recycle, resale place in Florida. IIRC it's called 'Don's Marine Salvage' In Clearwater. I haven't been there in 20 years. But I called them about 5 years ago looking for a sheet of Teak and Holly sole. Wasn't worth shipping to me, But they did have sheets of it.
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Old 07-26-2015, 06:07 PM   #15
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The 6mm ceiling is 1/64" teak veneer on top of a sheet of cheap Luan. It was not ever made to be waterproof. It was made to be easy to stick to the interior of the boat to make 'em look good. (and cover up a whole lot of stuff that should never be seen! It's called 'ceiling' in the trade. You can buy sheets of it from a recycle, resale place in Florida. IIRC it's called 'Don's Marine Salvage' In Clearwater. I haven't been there in 20 years. But I called them about 5 years ago looking for a sheet of Teak and Holly sole. Wasn't worth shipping to me, But they did have sheets of it.
Thanks...but not worth the trouble.....

So far...pretty easy to fix the boat better than the original.....seems lIke the monkeys had the bannanas instead of the handlers where these boats were built..

Just sorry I didn't have the cash to buy a real boat instead of this POS..
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:06 AM   #16
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Every item on the boat is sealed with some goop.

t has a service life , and must be renewed every so often.

If the windows are simply screwed down , the goop renewal is a minor hassle.

If the windows are "built in" and much wooden trim must be R&R its a big PIA to habve it come out right.

Dolphinite is better than 5200 forb this type maint.

The easiest is a modern metal window that uses Butyl tape.

The tape comes off as easy as Dolphinite and is faster to apply.

Look carefully at how the boat was assembled , all the boat , not just the windows.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:12 AM   #17
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David, those front window pics could have been taken by half of us here. At least your MT has modern aluminum frames versus wood frames, "although" I must say, I also have modern aluminum framed sliding windows (that have been professionally re-bedded twice) and they still leak!

Al, it is not so much that Howards GB windows don't leak because it is a GB than is because "it is a Europa style" trawler. They of course do get wet but they just don't get the constant direct exposure to sun & rain that non-europa's get. Wish I had bought one.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:27 PM   #18
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Well, my offer was accepted, and the survey, including sea trial and full engine survey by a trusted diesel mechanic, is this Friday. Hopefully she will pass - wish me luck.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:44 PM   #19
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David, look very carefully at the decks - go into the forward cabin and lie down on the bunk - look up at the underside of the deck. Check very carefully for signs of discolouration or mildew, in fact can you smell any mildew? Fresh water is very hard on the structures of these boats. I forgot to ask if it has teak decks? If so, when you first go on board, wet them down. By the time you have finished your survey they should be drying and wet seams will reveal all the places on the deck that the sealant has failed. If any screw heads are showing the decks are worn out - it may be possible to remove all the screws and drill them down a bit and re-bung them, but look at the deck thickness carefully and just try to imagine how much money it would take to pay someone to do all that labour.

Have a look at the underside/ceiling in the aft cabin, sniffing and looking for discolouration there too...

If those windows have been left to leak for a long time you can have dry rot in the walls of the cabin that will need addressing too.

Good luck with your purchase, just be very wary of a boat that leaks.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:56 PM   #20
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Thanks for the advice Xsbank. I spent a good three hours on her with eyeballs, nose, and camera working overtime. I would not spring the money for a good surveyor without doing that first. Apart from main cabin leaky windows I am pretty sure she is solid. No teaks decks - I would never buy a boat that had them. Having said that, I look to the surveyor to tell me if I am missing anything, and whether those leaky windows have done more serious damage. Cheers.
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