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Old 09-28-2016, 08:47 AM   #1
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Layout question

More and more people are telling me that I am over my head, when I am looking for a larger boat to have a comfortable live-aboard layout. As a newbie, I am bitten by the large boat ' bug ', but it is changing. Many of the boats I looked were in the 50-55' range. Since my budget is tight, this results only very old, or very 'needy' boats. Reading the forum, I learn that smaller is better, when it comes to boats. OK, so I accept it. I do agree, the newer boat I can buy, the less headache I would possibly inherit. So, the latest direction is to find a boat with a strait layout inside. What I mean is, to have the salon, galley, settee, even the staterooms, at the same level. I am reading Mr. Pascoe's books now and at one his surveys he also burst out that the going up and down layouts are frustrating and he also prefers strait walkthrough arrangements. I tend to agree with him. My reasoning is, if the layout is strait, it looks more spacious, so a smaller size boat can be accommodating enough for live-aboard, even if the space has a tight feeling. Am I going wrong about this? Educate me, please! lol
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:58 AM   #2
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Pascoe's opinion on layout is simply his opinion. I can't think of anything in boat selection more personal than the interior layout. When you step aboard the boat with the right layout for you, you will know it. More importantly is how the SO likes it. When you do find the right boat, we can discuss the anchor since there is only one good one.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:20 AM   #3
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Boat manufacturers try to maximize space, every kind of space. Having all of your living space on one level is tough to do without losing a lot of usable volume. Due to the engine room being roughly in the middle of the boat, the height of the engine(s) dictate the height of the cabin sole. To maximize space fore and aft of the engine room, most will have steps down to a forward cabin and often steps down to an aft cabin. Sedans and Europa designs don't have the aft cabins (unless they are pretty big and have cabins below a flush deck) but still have steps down to a forward cabin. Down east designs with a dog house around the engine(s) maximize single level space, house boats and v-drive driven boats that have the engine room under the back deck are about the only designs that come to mind providing something close to a single level cabin. There is a 43' Pearson motor yacht with a long saloon and pretty low cabin sole which minimized the steps down to the forward cabin.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmason View Post
Pascoe's opinion on layout is simply his opinion. I can't think of anything in boat selection more personal than the interior layout. When you step aboard the boat with the right layout for you, you will know it. More importantly is how the SO likes it. When you do find the right boat, we can discuss the anchor since there is only one good one.
Agree
It will be a personal preference and may be impacted by how you intend to use the boat.
One consideration I saw recently but never would have thought of...
if you cruise long distance and over night a separate pilot house / bridge deck could be important to limit light from other areas of the boat that are being occupied / used while cruising at night. If primarily a dock queen not so much
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:16 AM   #5
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Hmason.

That is the problem, I did fall in love with a Canoe Cove 53' in Vancouver, BC. It did not work out. The broker is not really interested in dealing with me, even though I practically offered them the present asking price and using a buyer broker. Plus, some of the members here told me to run away from that boat.
1983 Canoe Cove Sedan Bridge Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
This layout looked perfect for me. Canadian made hull, inside helm, V-drive and CATs away from the stateroom, covered cockpit, davit solutions, spacious salon; were among the attractive points. The ER room is not standup, but it has some space for maintenance. But it is huge, LOA is 60, so mooring is a bankruptcy in Seattle.
Now, I could imagine a smaller, but similar boat, as the perfect layout for me. I did see a Tolly 44 in Oregon a week ago. It was beautiful, but two Crusades and tiny salon, because it is a 40' originally, but they added a 4' cockpit to it. Would have been without the cockpit, aft cabin, and maybe a pair of Lehmanns, I would have taken it.

What do you mean by talking about the ' anchor '?
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:18 AM   #6
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Bacchus

Very good point. I do agree with the lights/pilothouse comment, as I am planning to do long distance cruising many years from now.
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:21 AM   #7
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Gdavid,

Stepping down to the stateroom is OK with me. I do like Europa style. Here is one close to me, but I don't know much about Ponderosa builts.
1985 Ponderosa Europa Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:27 AM   #8
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"What do you mean by talking about the ' anchor '?"

When you find the boat you want, ask this forum what anchor it should have and you will find out what I meant.
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:59 AM   #9
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I suggest actually going on different boats in your price range and seeing what appeals to you and what doesn't. I understand what you are saying about constantly going up and down to different levels but remember, a boat is a compromise. Sometimes this gets more room.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:21 AM   #10
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You have received a lot of sound advice. Just remember even a very well maintained older boat, over the period of your ownership, is going to have lots, and I mean lots, of maintenance issues. The bigger the boat the more it will cost to maintaining and operate. So both size and age need to be incorporated in your annual operating budged for whatever boat you finally buy. The purchase price is only one part of the total equation. Get a boat that you will enjoy and doesn't break the bank.

Good luck.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:32 AM   #11
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Interior layout is such a personal issue, it will be difficult to come to a consensus in a forum. Also you'll probably find suggestions and guidance that directly contradicts your own opinion.

That said, interior spaces are something that I've done quite a bit of research and looking into for the past few weeks; we are in the early stages of shopping for our next boat, something in the 38'-48' range, that will be our 2nd home and getaway on the water. We are a family of 3, with a pre-teen daughter, plus a dog.

We have come to the conclusion that separate living spaces, covered for the Pacific NW, are pretty much a requirement. This can be a pilothouse, as mentioned earlier, or an enclosed aft, or a sunbridge, or.... We're thinking more for at the dock than anything else -- similar to a house, there are times when you want (or need, as I can work remotely) some privacy and don't want to be in the party room.

We've had 4 "real" boats, everything from a 27' sailboat to our current 32' trawler. All have had plusses and minuses, but good use of vertical space is something I come to look for -- Bayliner for example, did a remarkable job "stacking" living spaces. Some people say this is "cramming" stuff into a boat too small for it, but I find it to be valuable. Ladders bad, but stairs or steps good.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:44 AM   #12
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hmason

You are killing me with this puzzle! hehehe
Maybe I will go to Heaven, before I will know the answer to the ' anchor ' meaning.... lol
I need to find that darn boat fast....
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:47 AM   #13
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Paul M.

I know you are correct with your comment. I am budgeting 15-20% of the purchase value/year for those expenses.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:49 AM   #14
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I did go, and I will continue to go, to visit different sizes, layouts. My list so far is: 36/42/44/47/50/53'. All very different in many ways.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:51 AM   #15
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IMO, a boat layout that is primarily for a live aboard is not the best layout for distance cruising.

Folks can and do live aboard small boats. Those boats are probably not what you would consider "comfortable". At your budget, you can buy a bigger boat and spend every waking moment fixing it up for your eventual plans, or you can buy a smaller boat and spend every other waking moment fixing it to suit your future plans.

Look at a lot of boats in your price range. You won't know until you want on board what the size really feels like.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:52 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=utazo89;483964]Hmason.

Plus, some of the members here told me to run away from that boat.
1983 Canoe Cove Sedan Bridge Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Any particular reason to run away? I have always thought Canoe Coves were well built, albeit not the most attractive craft on the water.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:59 AM   #17
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Ladders are OK with me. Steps I try to avoid.
I don't mind crammed staterooms, one head/shower, as I am a single guy.
I do want to stretch my legs out in the salon, when I can; cook my meal and store my food for less grocery shopping; be covered from the weather, when I finally decide to head out and do my long range cruising.
I don't want to switch to another boat 10 years from now, when I retire. I want to fix and learn everything I can. I have 8-10 years for this. I will stay away from open waters for several years and be in protected marinas, but when I am free to go, I want to get out. So, it is a mix, what I want from a boat. Be comfortable for now. Be safe later. They layout is important to me for these two reasons.
I read and ask questions to learn. I make mistakes and learn. I have hopes that I will find my ' perfect ' boat. I know it does not exist, but I am still looking for it.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:06 PM   #18
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Max Simmons

The run away suggestion was not aimed towards Canoe Coves. It was about this boat specifically. I do not know the real reason, except some members here are lot more knowledgeable than me and might see things I don't.
Perhaps, I was too naive about the possible maintenance issues with the twin 3208 turbos, V-drive, electronic control, etc. Why spend 2K on a survey, when there is known issues with this configuration? I think this was the point.
I read the Canoe Cove hulls are very good quality. This is what started my interest. Perhaps, a smaller Canoe, with different engines can be a good option? Again, I really liked the layout. It fit my present and future plans well.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utazo89 View Post

Ladders are OK with me. Steps I try to avoid.
See, opinions.

We avoid ladders because they are difficult to use when you are carrying something, and they are impossible for the dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by utazo89 View Post
I don't mind crammed staterooms, one head/shower, as I am a single guy.
I do want to stretch my legs out in the salon, when I can; cook my meal and store my food for less grocery shopping; be covered from the weather, when I finally decide to head out and do my long range cruising.
I don't want to switch to another boat 10 years from now, when I retire. I want to fix and learn everything I can. I have 8-10 years for this. I will stay away from open waters for several years and be in protected marinas, but when I am free to go, I want to get out. So, it is a mix, what I want from a boat. Be comfortable for now. Be safe later. They layout is important to me for these two reasons.
I read and ask questions to learn. I make mistakes and learn. I have hopes that I will find my ' perfect ' boat. I know it does not exist, but I am still looking for it.
From this description, I think the boats you are looking at will suit you well.... that Ponderosa you posted above is especially intriguing.

Good luck! This is the fun part, so enjoy it.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:23 PM   #20
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For a good nights sleep , learn far more about boat construction.

Your sleep will be of a different kind if it comes from 4 months of 14 hour days of repair , or relaxing days enjoying the scenery.

The boat choice is more important than how the sheets are fitted.
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