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05-05-2014, 04:52 PM
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#41
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
...I would be interested in the experiences of those here in terms of loss of speed using them. If you're going 15 knots then .5 isn't a big deal but if you're going 7 knots I would hope paravanes are not impacting speed that much.
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I have no idea on active stabilizers but we trade-off some where between 1/2 to 3/4 of a knot @ ~7 knots with the fish in the water. We have a couple choices to change that, but everything is a compromise.
We can change the angle that the fish travels through the water which can add or subtract resistance or go with a smaller fish. We are running fish that are designed for 50-60' vessel for increase comfort. So far the set up has worked for us and is worth the trade off/compromise.
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05-05-2014, 06:44 PM
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#42
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
I have no idea on active stabilizers but we trade-off some where between 1/2 to 3/4 of a knot @ ~7 knots with the fish in the water. We have a couple choices to change that, but everything is a compromise.
We can change the angle that the fish travels through the water which can add or subtract resistance or go with a smaller fish. We are running fish that are designed for 50-60' vessel for increase comfort. So far the set up has worked for us and is worth the trade off/compromise.
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That's what I'd seen as typical. So 7-10% of your speed at 7 knots, but your fuel efficiency is so good anyway, doesn't much matter. Only time it would be an issue would be strong currents against you.
On stabilizers, what we've seen has been negligible. What I've read has been 0.1 knot.
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05-05-2014, 07:01 PM
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#43
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Larry M,
I see you attach in the center hole for the fish. Have you tried the fwd hole? It's possible the fish will work as well w a little less angle of attack and greatly reduce the load on the rigging.
Also running stranded SS wire should reduce the drag even further. Some skippers I ment in Prince Rupert like chain the best but chain must be very high drag. Metal (thin) fish wings should reduce drag and the "fuselage" of the fish could be modified into a more streamlined shape. Most are very blunt. You may be able to lower your drag to only loose 1/4 to 1/3 of a knot.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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05-05-2014, 07:34 PM
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#44
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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I'm number of things:
I love the amsteel blue. it has no stretch and I hear virtually no noise.
I followed Larry's advice and got the Stano Enterprise fish. not only do they seem perfect for this boat, but me not knowing any better I just throw in the water at full speed, they do once skip and then dive right down.
I just finished 36 hours with them and the one problem I had was caused by me.
my Fish are only running about 13 feet below water.
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05-05-2014, 07:40 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
City: Erie PA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 225
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I like the amsteel also I put a rubber muffler mount in the line and that cut out the vibrations. I run my fish about 13 feet under water and never have them come close the surface. About 0.5 knot loss of speed also is noted.
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05-05-2014, 07:51 PM
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#46
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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I can hear and feel some low level vibration but it doesn't bother me and I don't think it's that noticeable.
I do lose about half a knot.
I too retrieve them by hand, but I'm thinking about system with a little hand winch.
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05-05-2014, 07:55 PM
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#47
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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I have a question, really out of curiosity.
When all is said and done with your various paravanes, counting all costs, how much are they costing you? I'm getting the impression that by the time everything is added up it's more than I initially thought.
And how long before repairs or replacement typically?
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05-05-2014, 08:16 PM
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#48
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
...On stabilizers, what we've seen has been negligible. What I've read has been 0.1 knot.
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That's very good efficiency. Is that for a FD recreational vessel?
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05-05-2014, 08:18 PM
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#49
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
I have a question, really out of curiosity.
When all is said and done with your various paravanes, counting all costs, how much are they costing you? I'm getting the impression that by the time everything is added up it's more than I initially thought.
And how long before repairs or replacement typically?
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In over 12000 miles with the fish in the water we have less than $600 in replacement parts and servicing other than painting the poles but that's optional.
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05-05-2014, 08:23 PM
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#50
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats
Larry M,
I see you attach in the center hole for the fish. Have you tried the fwd hole? It's possible the fish will work as well w a little less angle of attack and greatly reduce the load on the rigging.
Eric: If I reduce the angle, less downward force so, I sacrifice comfort.
Also running stranded SS wire should reduce the drag even further. Some skippers I ment in Prince Rupert like chain the best but chain must be very high drag. Metal (thin) fish wings should reduce drag and the "fuselage" of the fish could be modified into a more streamlined shape. Most are very blunt. You may be able to lower your drag to only loose 1/4 to 1/3 of a knot.
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I only have 4' of chain and that's to help lifting the fish in and out. Richard said he looses .5 knots with no chain. It's all a compromise.
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05-05-2014, 08:24 PM
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#51
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
In over 12000 miles with the fish in the water we have less than $600 in replacement parts and servicing other than painting the poles but that's optional.
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What did they cost initially?
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05-05-2014, 08:31 PM
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#52
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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I think you'd lose more speed with a couple of barnacles than a bit of chain. I love Amsteel, I replaced both wire ropes on my big and small winches with it, no more rust, jaggers or sharp swages from the wire - it got recycled.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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05-05-2014, 08:31 PM
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#53
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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They were on Hobo when we bought her. We were told 12K. We had estimates of 10-15K when we were looking at another boat in the PNW. We had friends that had them installed last year and they were a tad under 15K without painting. Richard posted 10K for his in Ft Lauderdale last month.
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05-05-2014, 08:32 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
City: Erie PA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 225
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If built well I spend very little on them and it depends on your boat. I have a steel boat and was will to do the design and work my self. I will admit it I was luck with the first design. Way cheaper then active fin it would have cost more then my boat to put those in.
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05-05-2014, 08:35 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
City: Erie PA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 225
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The hardware is not that expensive overall.
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05-05-2014, 08:37 PM
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#56
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
That's very good efficiency. Is that for a FD recreational vessel?
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No, semi-displacement or semi-planing or whatever term one is willing to accept for the day.
That's what I've read in discussions on stabilizers in general.
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05-05-2014, 08:49 PM
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#57
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funangler
The hardware is not that expensive overall.
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You're right. A 20' piece of 2" schedule 80 aluminum is less than $175. 1/4" SS wire and a bunch of shackles and thimbles? Our fish, which are commercially available, are less than $200/each. Design is important particularly on wood or fiberglass boats but that's another post.
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05-08-2014, 07:05 PM
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#58
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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Design is critical.
Mine are designed do that the weakest part is the pole, as it's the cheapest to replace.
And it is, but I'll leave that fit a different thread.
The amsteel is great in that I really have little noise.
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05-20-2014, 12:54 AM
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#59
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Stumbled across this video and thought others might learn from it too.
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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05-20-2014, 08:37 AM
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#60
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Senior Member
City: Baltimore
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 305
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While i don't have them or even a boat worthy of stabilizers...
I would think that the .5 knt that it 'costs' in speed would have been lost anyhow due to slowing and tacking.
My concern would be snagging something or running them into the ground. when deployed you, for practical purposes basically have a 15' draft, 50'+ beam.
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