Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-04-2014, 12:10 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Boydski's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sea Eagle
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Scott I think it's a regional thing. When I use the term Flopper Stopper I'm referring to the whole rig, booms, vanes or hinged plates, cables, etc.

On that subject, has anyone used the hinged plates Scott is referring to? Do they help?
Thanks for the clarification. The regional thing makes sense.

The hinged plates work really well for anchorages that are exposed to large swell (like many along the California Coastline). They are also very popular with Nordhavn's in the Mediterranean, where the constant swell can make some of the anchorages very uncomfortable.

A side benefit is that when put out the flopper stoppers, no one anchors anywhere near you...
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Scott (Boydski) Boyd
Yes Please, Grand Banks Eastbay
Sea Eagle, Nordhavn 47 (sold)
Boydski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #22
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
Regarding bilge keels (or rolling chocks) as stabilizers, I find they have only a very minor dampening effect. I have them, and the boat still rolls very uncomfortably until I raise the sails.

IMO they may help very slightly, but nowhere near the effect that either paravanes, fin stabilizers, or sails have on reducing the rolling.
__________________

AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 04:24 PM   #23
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,443
I find my paravanes are very heavy and are difficult to haul up over the rail. Has anyone rigged lifting tackle?
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 06:20 PM   #24
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
XsBank
Mine also are pretty heavy and at present I hand haul them to the arm tops before raising the arms and then lowering the fish into their stow bracket.
I am thinking of installing a small winch (sail type) mid ships on the transom to assist. Or one either side, which ever is the easiest to accomplish.

Cheers
Benn
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #25
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
I find my paravanes are very heavy and are difficult to haul up over the rail. Has anyone rigged lifting tackle?
look at the way some of the N46's are rigged, they winch them back to the stern so you have minimal dead lifting.

The P.O. of Volunteer had designed and rigger the paravanes with swaged bronze balls at about 16" intervals on the down cable. He built a couple handles that had a matching cup with slot that to pull the vanes you lifted the pole to vertical, and reached down and pulled them up with the handles.. they were heavy and you needed to be going dead slow for it to be do able.
HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 06:50 PM   #26
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
Hollywood ,
I have to be stopped to haul mine otherwise there is to much resistance.
That is where a trip line can be helpful so that the fish can be tripped over on their back and easier to haul in.
But this also introduces an extra line that can be fouled.

Cheers
Benn
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 09:33 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
My setup is unique my arms fold back on to the aft deck. I use a boat pole and grab the downline on the fish walk them back and pull them out. I can do this at less then 2 knots. The system is simple and easy. I rapidly built the system not expecting it to work well on the first build and have to go back and clean some welds and buy some solid eye for attachment points. I think I spent less then 600 dollars on the build.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	122.8 KB
ID:	29637   Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	142.2 KB
ID:	29638   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_06360001.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	29639   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_06370001.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	82.8 KB
ID:	29640  
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 10:37 PM   #28
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,705
They can be quite dangerous.

15' deep is the norm but I've heard from fishermen in Alaska that if run on a shorter chain they (the fish) can in rough seas come up out of the water and crash through the cabin windows.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 01:19 AM   #29
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
Eric,
I run mine at 17'.
That is the reason I am going to extend my arms to 18' at the next haul out and before my trip south to Tasmania.
Cheers
Benn
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 02:21 AM   #30
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
They can be quite dangerous.

15' deep is the norm but I've heard from fishermen in Alaska that if run on a shorter chain they (the fish) can in rough seas come up out of the water and crash through the cabin windows.

They can also go right thru the plywood side of a flybridge. The P.O. of Volunteer had one take flight on a trip up the west coast and go almost through. He got quite a few comments from fishermen in Ft. Bragg as he hacked and sawed it loose. When you consider the loads and kinetic energy it is not hard to see the possibilities.
HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 07:53 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
I'm ok with my shorter arms in my set up. The power and distance the tip of the arm can move is limited. The potential power of a arm that is 18 ft long must be awesome.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 10:41 AM   #32
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,724
Funangler: Thanks for the photos. I like the way the arms fold back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by funangler View Post
I'm ok with my shorter arms in my set up. The power and distance the tip of the arm can move is limited. The potential power of a arm that is 18 ft long must be awesome.
Our poles are 20' of 2" schedule 80 aluminum. And you're right, the loading is incredibly high. You can almost feel the power through the A-frame and mast. We lost a swivel at termination point between the chain to wire last year. It was like a shot. We also hit a dead head. That got our attention.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 11:19 AM   #33
Guru
 
Scary's Avatar
 
City: Walnut Grove Ca
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cary'D Away
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
interesting

Since my only experience with fins is with my Hat and I haven't experienced the boat without stabilizers I assumed the great tracking was at least partly due to the fins. Next time out I'll turn off the fins and pilot and see if steer a straight course. Then kick in the fins and see if it makes it dramatically better.
Scary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 01:12 PM   #34
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary View Post
Since my only experience with fins is with my Hat and I haven't experienced the boat without stabilizers I assumed the great tracking was at least partly due to the fins. Next time out I'll turn off the fins and pilot and see if steer a straight course. Then kick in the fins and see if it makes it dramatically better.
I haven't known many Hatteras without stabilizers but I've known some old ones without and that been the first thing new purchasers added. Hatteras seemed at the forefront of stabilizers with few problems. Some seemed to develop the art a little later. For instance, Nordhavn struggled a bit years ago. The number one failure or problem on the Atlantic Rally was stabilizers. Now however I don't hear of problems with them on Nordhavn's.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 02:04 PM   #35
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,705
Soft chine boats don't put nearly the load on para vane poles as hard chine boats. The best boat for paravanes is a very round hull like an old troller. Wide hard chined boats have extremely strong righting moments and put heavy loads on the rigging. Perhaps a flexable pole or springs in the rigging would help. Would be nice to be able to dupe a system that's got some history that could be depended upon.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 02:17 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Boydski's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sea Eagle
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
For instance, Nordhavn struggled a bit years ago. The number one failure or problem on the Atlantic Rally was stabilizers. Now however I don't hear of problems with them on Nordhavn's.
The earlier stabilizers that failed during the Atlantic Rally were mostly due to inadequate cooling for continuous use and hydraulic hose failures. The ones installed now are very reliable and well engineered.

I think all of the stabilizer manufacturers learned valuable lessons from that event.
__________________
Scott (Boydski) Boyd
Yes Please, Grand Banks Eastbay
Sea Eagle, Nordhavn 47 (sold)
Boydski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 02:51 PM   #37
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
... Perhaps a flexable pole or springs in the rigging would help....
We have 8' of 1/2" 3 strand from the top of the poles to the wire to act as a shock absorber. You can see it stretch when loaded. We saw a Nordhavn that used a small tire in line for shock absorbing.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 03:31 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
With my short arms I like no stretch at all I notice a drop in performance if I switch to something that stretches.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 04:04 PM   #39
Veteran Member
 
Norwester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
I'm very interested in the paravane idea. I'm not going to be crossing oceans on my boat, but I do intend to take her to Alaska and would also like to spend time on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

Eric, thanks for the explanation about hard and soft chines. It sounds like the loading forces will be less because of the soft chines on my boat.

My boat is in Anacortes. Does anyone have any recommendations for an experienced designer/installer that I could talk to in that area?
Lyle
Norwester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 05:25 PM   #40
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydski View Post
The earlier stabilizers that failed during the Atlantic Rally were mostly due to inadequate cooling for continuous use and hydraulic hose failures. The ones installed now are very reliable and well engineered.

I think all of the stabilizer manufacturers learned valuable lessons from that event.
Yes, that was the ultimate test of several boats with them all going 3000+ miles in mixed conditions. But clearly they hadn't developed at that point, at least the ones Nordhavn was using. But now they seem rather trouble free, as much as anything on a boat is. At one time Paravanes were probably less trouble. Now I'd say they're more or at least more work. That's what it really comes down to. Stabilizers have ease of use and minimum impact on speed, typically only about 0.1 knots. Paravanes have a large cost advantage but more effort to use and they generally slow the boat more, about 0.5 knots.

I would be interested in the experiences of those here in terms of loss of speed using them. If you're going 15 knots then .5 isn't a big deal but if you're going 7 knots I would hope paravanes are not impacting speed that much.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012