KK42, GB42, DeFever 44: Help me decide

[Gordon J]

Flopper stoppers and hydraulic stabilizers

He may not be, but if he found the perfect boat for a decent amount under $250k, just want him aware. And, if he finds one with stabilizers already then accept that vs. his requirement stated of paravanes.

My 2003 Ocean Alexander 456 came with both hydraulic stabilizers and rocker stoppers, for use while on anchor. I can't imagine that paravanes are very easy to deploy and the computer operated stabilizers really make a difference. I know fuel consumption suffers, but with two Cummins 330s pushing her, I doubt it makes much difference.

I love my boat and configuration, but it is not on your list. Of the three on your list, I have crewed on a KK 48 from Norfolk, VA to Stuart FL. I have been aboard, for a short trip, my friends un-stabilized Defever 49. I love the defever's stand up engine room and the KK's pilot house. However, in my own boat, with a flybridge hardtop, enclosure, and twin ACs, coupled with the stabilizers, I can't see a need to ever drive the boat from down below and think the fly bridge is superior to the pilot house.

In the end, of all the features on my boat, the hydraulic stabilizers are the most valuable, IMHO. 2nd place would be water maker and back-up generator and electronic throttles.

I do think the high hulls of the KKs might be a bit more seaworthy, but, given your cruising plans thank any of them would do - but with stabilizers.

I have cruised every place you mentioned - but with my sailboat - and would not attempt without some sort of stabilization.

my $.02
Gordon

 

[BandB]

The stabilizers slowing the boat down may be historically true, but in today's world, properly installed stabilizers make very little difference and in some sea actually increase speed (again very small amount) by removing the roll.

 

[Gordon J]

impact of hydraulic stabilizers

BandB

I suspect you are right. I get about 2 mpg at trawler speed - 8.5 knots or so. I have winglets on the ends of my stabilizers and allegedly, this is meant to reduce fuel consumption.

Just for general information, I have posted a short film showing the boat in 4 foot seas with stabilizers on and off.

 

[Gordon J]

didn't work, ill try a zip file

Never mind. My file is an m4v and is not allowed on the site.

 

[BandB]

BandB

I suspect you are right. I get about 2 mpg at trawler speed - 8.5 knots or so. I have winglets on the ends of my stabilizers and allegedly, this is meant to reduce fuel consumption.

Just for general information, I have posted a short film showing the boat in 4 foot seas with stabilizers on and off.

Would you link to that, please?

Some of us go out in rougher seas than others do and for us then stabilizers cease being a convenience and become a necessity. Now, paravanes might do the same for some boats. Not for me. Remind me too much of how much sailors have to work.

 

[Gordon J]

BandB,

I have the short film on my puter. . . How do I link to it?

Gordon

 

[BandB]

BandB,

I have the short film on my puter. . . How do I link to it?

Gordon

Oh, put it on youtube and then link to it.

 

[Gordon J]

OK, lets try this. First time poster to Youtube.

 

[BandB]

Most of the manufacturers of stabilizers have on and off videos. I know Seakeeper has many. Side-power did a test of their vector fins on a 51' Princess. At 11 knots, they reduced the roll by 97%. At anchor they reduced the maximum roll by 72% and the average by 66%. As an aside and I'm not sure how they arrived at these numbers, they reduced seasickness underway by 99.8% and at anchor by around 90%. Does anyone get seasick at anchor?

 

[BandB]

OK, lets try this. First time poster to Youtube.

Wow. That is a huge difference. I would imagine today they wouldn't even sell your boat without stabilizers. There are many that don't. The new L series Sea Rays come standard with Seakeepers. Some very fine boats today are bad without stabilizers. For instance a Hatteras 60.

Now there is one huge problem with stabilizers. Once you have them you'll never want to not have them again. Exception might be one N4061 friend.

 

[Baker]

Does anyone get seasick at anchor?

I have been close. It was actually in a slip. But the conditions were severe....along the ICW and not in a no wake zone and bunches of not so courteous fishing boats...up to and including sportfish boats.

 

[Gordon J]

I haven't gotten sea sick, but I really got sick of the rolling, one night after a wind shift in Marigot Bay, St. Martin. The rolling was so bad, I had to get up and sit in the cockpit. A night I will never forget, and this was on my sailboat with a 6-foot keel.

 

[Gordon J]

No doubt about wanting stabilizers

My boat is the first, other than the 48 KK that I had been on that had stabilizers. The KK required them because of the rounded bottom. My boat has a semi-displacement hull. I could not imagine owning a trawler - of any stripe, without the stabilizers. The brand on my boat is Trac and they come with three settings, one of which will also correct the heel caused by wind.

Regarding ABT Trac - - - The stabilizers had been on the boat six years when I bought her. Service interval is six years. I had to take the fins off, drain the oil by removing the outside plate, replace some odd bits on the interior. All in all about a two-day process for a novice. The ABT Trac customer service rep walked me through the procedure step by step --- while he was in France working another project. Unbelievable customer service.

I have no idea how well paravanes work, but . . .

Count me in the camp that votes for finding a boat with stabilizers already installed.

Gordon

 

[BandB]

The brand on my boat is Trac and they come with three settings, one of which will also correct the heel caused by wind.

Regarding ABT Trac - - - The stabilizers had been on the boat six years when I bought her. Service interval is six years. I had to take the fins off, drain the oil by removing the outside plate, replace some odd bits on the interior. All in all about a two-day process for a novice. The ABT Trac customer service rep walked me through the procedure step by step --- while he was in France working another project. Unbelievable customer service.

ABT has a most interesting split screen video.

https://vimeo.com/67352636

 

[JDCAVE]

FWIW I can deploy and retrieve my paravanes in 5 minutes. During retrieval, I first pull the poles nearly all the way in. As I have stripped off the trimming lines, I simply use a pike pole to pull the parvane close enough to reach the chain to pull them in. They require some effort to bring them aboard.

I specifically chose a KK42 with poles and paravanes and am very satisfied and I am certain I get zero drag when they are out of the water. Maintenance is minimal, although you need to ensure that the rigging is safe. I've replace the rigging on my poles. I'm skeptical of claims that stabilizing systems don't influence drag when not in use.

 

[Gordon J]

JD,

Do you have separate planes/vanes for stabilization at anchor.

BandB,

The factory rep said i could get the software installed for stabilization at rest, but i would need to hook the hydraulic pump to a generator. Too much trouble me thinks.

 

[tcpip95]

I love the Defever 48 - probably my favorite boat of all. I'm just not sure that I'm going to be able to handle that size boat as one person, Hence the 44.

Any thoughts on that? I'm 61, used to be in good shape, now "round" is my preferred shape. No health conditions to speak of, I think it's just a matter of getting around it when docking, etc.

 

[Gordon J]

In addition, one of the three settings is made to reduce roll but yet improve fuel efficiency. The Manuel says that fuel economy will suffer if the fins are set for zero roll. Of course, the lumpier the seas, the more the fins have to work. I am not savvy enough to under stand whether greater upward force on paravanes would reduce efficiency.

 

[Gordon J]

Docking

I love the Defever 48 - probably my favorite boat of all. I'm just not sure that I'm going to be able to handle that size boat as one person, Hence the 44.

Any thoughts on that? I'm 61, used to be in good shape, now "round" is my preferred shape. No health conditions to speak of, I think it's just a matter of getting around it when docking, etc.

That is why you want twins, and perhaps a bow thruster. Parking couldn't be easier. The only work is heaving on lines. Bigger the boat the more heave. Still...i am 60, work out every dayv and my wife has no problem... Well not enormous problems with lines... Until they get wet. of course, i have been trying to get her to drive the boat. She would rather heave and grunt...

 

[JDCAVE]

JD,

Do you have separate planes/vanes for stabilization at anchor.

No, I don't. One could have separate hinged flopper-stoppers with larger surface areas, but I don't have those.

Jim

 

[Sealife]

I would he wary of offshore use in any boat that "required" stabilization. The possibility of failure is always there even with paravanes. Thats when you want a full displacement hull that can recover from a severe roll.

I have flopper stoppers and the birds. The birds dampen roll at anchor a little, but not enough. Think offshore swell coming in 90 degrees to the wind. Most recently between isla grande and isla linton in Panama. They allowed me to anchor where there was room, vs. squeezing in with all the others.

I do love the idea of pushing a button though. The issue at anchor would be the gen running non stop.