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Old 05-28-2019, 11:51 AM   #1
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Just started shopping for the next boat

We have started the hunt for our next boat. Our background is mostly smaller ski/jet/fishing boats with one 25í Searay Sundancer that we would take up to the San Juans. This time around we are looking for something 32í+. We are thinking floating apartment that we will stay the night on once a week as the marina is closer to work than our home, can go to the San Juans 3-5 times a summer, cruse around the Everett area and south sound a little. Very light fishing/crabbing. We would like room for guest, but also a nice stateroom open gally. Price is 65k and under. Models we have noticed so far are Californian aft cabin 35/42, Carver aft cabin, Bayliner 3270/88, Tollycraft tri-cabin, Canoe Cove Trawler and I still like the CHB aft cabin boats. I would prefer a diesel powered boat, but have noticed a lot of the Californianís and Tollycrafts are gas powered. The wife likes the Bayliners, but would prefer to have the galley up vs down and she is worried that if we get a bayliner we will never be able to sell it. In addition, she would prefer a real shower. Cabin heat is a big deal to her, she wants to be nice and warm when we are on the hook. Do we need to look for a boat with a gen set? We are not in it for the long hall with this boat. Our plan would be to keep it for 2-3 years, if we like it a lot, and use it as much as we think we might, we will upgrade to something newer or a style that more suits what we really need. If we do not use it, we will sell it off. I donít want a wood hull boat, but donít mind refinishing handrails and what not. Most of the boats we are looking at are aft cabin boats, I know this will create a few problems with fishing/crabbing. As well as making it difficult to get on/off the boat at the dock. We are in our early 40ís, Iím somewhat handy and know my way around an engine and most systems on a boat. I do not mind minor projects, but do not what to be spending the first 6 months on a major project.
The questions I have based on the info above, what boat would fill our needs best, hold its value or more importantly will we be able to re-sell in 2-3 years as I know boats are not $$ makers. For my price point, and the number of times we will hit the San Juans and for resale should I hold out for diesels? Are there other models I did not list that we should be looking at in the PNW?
We plan to buy around Spring 2020, just getting some ducks lined up now. Moreover, that brings me to a place to put this thing; ideally, we want it at the Everett Marina. Currently there is a waiting list of 1.5/2 years for a slip in the 35-45 range. Do I just wait for the ideal boat to come up for sale with a slip in the area I want? Or how does one go about this? I do not want a covered slip this time around, as we want to be out in the sun the 7 days we have it.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:32 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard. With slip waiting lists, I would get on a list now just in case. I am not really familiar with PNM boats so I wonít recommend a specific boat. I would go to as many shows as possible and maybe a Trawler Fest if there is one around there. If you want heat you will need a genset or diesel haet I think. Good luck with your search.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:39 PM   #3
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Welcome Ron,


Your wife is wise. Heat is important in the PNW year round. We spent the weekend on the boat and used the heat every morning. In a way, you have an advantage. You know that you only want to keep this boat for a few years. That can save you a lot of money as many of us buy boats for "what if" or "maybe when" events of our imagined future lives.


So find a boat with heat. Your costs go up dramatically if you have to add those things later. If you go with a diesel powered boat, most boats around here seem to have some form of diesel heat. If not, you will need a generator so you can run electric heat.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:52 PM   #4
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard. "...stay the night on once a week..." Good luck with THAT schedule!!! How about just go home on the weekends is more like it.


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Old 05-28-2019, 01:49 PM   #5
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard. "...stay the night on once a week..." Good luck with THAT schedule!!! How about just go home on the weekends is more like it.


True
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:50 PM   #6
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Welcome aboard. With slip waiting lists, I would get on a list now just in case. I am not really familiar with PNM boats so I wonít recommend a specific boat. I would go to as many shows as possible and maybe a Trawler Fest if there is one around there. If you want heat you will need a genset or diesel haet I think. Good luck with your search.
We have been hitting the local shows, Anacortes puts on a good one with lots of used models in our price point.
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:59 PM   #7
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After looking at a few Tollycraft Tri-cabin's they are no longer on the wife's list. Complaints were, too difficult to get on/off/around.
But funny enough the CHB's and GB's Tri-cabins she loves... I'm a fan of brightwork, right up until I'm the one taking care of it... a little worried about the amount of time/labor needed to keep it looking like it should.
Also looking at Bayliner 3888's as the 3288 is a little tight.
And now she's showing me pictures of a Tolly sedan she likes in Anacortes..

This part is fun, but I feel we will be looking at a lot more boats.

On the wait list at the Everett Marina...
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:48 PM   #8
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Hi Ron,
My free advice (and worth every penny ) would be to make lists. You and your wife should make separate lists and then compare. List the features that are: Must haves; Nice to have; and absolutely don't want.

Realize that all boats are a compromise and it is very unlikely you will find the "perfect one" that will meet all of your desires (especially within your budget (also seems to be true no matter the budget)). Also, when comparing lists and compromising with the Admiral, remember, she is right! You both will be happier.
For me, on my don't want list was twin engines (double the maintenance, cramped ER, harder to work on, etc.), screwed down teak decks, and exterior teak. Basically trying to minimize the work required.

As far as exterior teak, avoid it unless you like refinishing teak, or can afford to hire someone, or can afford covers for all of it. Screwed down teak decks, while looking great, can be a real expensive maintenance issue and when they leak (think hundreds of screws), the damage can be extensive.

Enjoy the journey you have embarked on. It can be exciting and fun.
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:16 PM   #9
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If you are looking to buy a boat that comes with a slip:

Check with the marina. Most municiple and some private marinas with waiting lists might not let the new owner take over the slip. Find out if they have "Grandfatherd" slips and if they do, ask for the rules.

Des Moines Marina granted all the original tenants a "Grandfather" option in the 70's. It meant they could sell their boat and transfer the slip to the buyer........Once!

Years later when the waiting list for slips got long and Grandfathered slips were becoming scarce, these original tenants were able to sell their boats for way more money than they were worth. Some sold their boats first and bought a POS boat to put in the slip and sold the POS for ridiculous money.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:47 AM   #10
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This time around we are looking for something 32í+. We are thinking floating apartment that we will stay the night on once a week as the marina is closer to work than our home, can go to the San Juans 3-5 times a summer, cruse around the Everett area and south sound a little. Very light fishing/crabbing. We would like room for guest, but also a nice stateroom open gally. Price is 65k and under. Models we have noticed so far are Californian aft cabin 35/42, Carver aft cabin, Bayliner 3270/88, Tollycraft tri-cabin, Canoe Cove Trawler and I still like the CHB aft cabin boats. I would prefer a diesel powered boat, ...

In addition, she would prefer a real shower. Cabin heat is a big deal to her, she wants to be nice and warm when we are on the hook. Do we need to look for a boat with a gen set?

I donít want a wood hull boat, but donít mind refinishing handrails and what not. Most of the boats we are looking at are aft cabin boats, I know this will create a few problems with fishing/crabbing. As well as making it difficult to get on/off the boat at the dock.

For my price point, and the number of times we will hit the San Juans and for resale should I hold out for diesels? Are there other models I did not list that we should be looking at in the PNW?

You should each list features you need, want, would like to have. Then compare, meld, etc. Real shower, heat, etc.

Hot water and heat at anchor usually means genset. OTOH, that in turn comes with other possibilities too (electric galley, microwave, aircon, etc.) and battery charging at anchor, using genset to power a converter, is usually a useful capability too.

There are "Cockpit Motor Yachts" (CMPY) out there that you might want to look at. Gets you that large aft cabin, but also a (usually modest) cockpit for things like fishing/crabbing, maybe an easier boarding point, etc Carver made several models, as did some other builders.

Wood is work. If you like it, OK; if you just want to go boating, avoid if possible. Or expect to hire the work done.

Pros and cons for diesels and for gas. One of the most important arguments for diesel is about fuel economy over longer distances. The other side of that is that gas can be a more economical approach (including entry cost) when distances are short-ish and overall use is modest. Your call.

OTOH, I've not been comfortable with the idea of running a gas genset overnight for heat -- or more commonly in our case, AC. That's maybe easily addressed in some cases (e.g., another blanket, or whatever), but you'll know your climate better than I do. Part two of "your call."

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Old 06-17-2019, 10:29 AM   #11
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Thank you for the tips, we were on about 25 boats this weekend at a few lots in Anacortes WA. We visited Banana belt boats and Gateway Yachts.
A few of our favorites were:

1986 Mikelson 42 Sedan, twin Detroit powered, very nice layout. Probably on the big side of things for us. I am not a Detroit fan unless its a 60 series at the 2-stroke noise/oil/fuel smell all the time. I have rebuilt a fair amount of these. I know what it takes to keep them alive and don't really want one let alone two.


1980 DeFever Passagemaker, my favorite boat so far, diesel cabin heat, very slow boat with on 4cy volvo. Gen set, lots of batteries, lots of storage, I could see spending a lot of time off the docks with this one. Lots of room, goofy bow bathroom. I don't care for the black sides, but I am sure they make other colors. Smaller cabin with the walk around sides. But I still like it. Wife is ok with this one, but not on her top 5 list.
I feel this was probably the best built boat we were on this weekend.

1988 Bayliner 3288, we could make this work, but feel its on the smaller side of what we want now. But the entry price is attractive. And there are a lot of them for sale in our area ready to go. We could buy one, use it for a few years, and even if we lost 1/2 of the value when we sold it would not be too bad.

1989 Bayliner 3888, diesel heat, get set, twin Hino, propane kitchen. My wife loves this layout its #2 on her list. I kind of like it also, I am worried that a Bayliner will be hard to sell in a few years if we choose to upgrade or just get out. As there are a lot of the 3888's for sale and in watching them, they do not seam to move unless they are 45k or less and have every option + a bow thruster. Most we like are in the 60-65k range.

1983 Californian 42' LRC. A bit big for me, wife loves this boat, its in really good shape but on the tip top of our price range at 80k. We have looked at others just like this for 1/2 the price, but need twice the work. This boat is the wifes #1 but she also thinks its just too big for our first big boat.

One of the boats I thought we would really like was a Tollycraft Sedan 34'.
The wife put this on the No list. Does not like the layout, I am still a Tolly fan.


We have been on a few smaller Tollycraft Tri cabins, I still like them, but have not found one that was in good shape. And a funny story.. a guy looking at the 42 Californian has a 40' Tolly Tri and said he would give it to me! But it need most everything re-done besides the new 454's. He is at an age that he would rather buy something finished vs work one more day on the Tolly. He said I only got so many days of life left, I don't want to spend them on projects. So now Im thinking, could we buy something older than needs work, but it on the hard for 2 years and do most everything our self's? Or will we be thinking the same thing as this guys a year in? Im handy, about my only downfall is electrical, I would hire a pro for this. But wood/vinyl/paint/engines I can do.
And then the total cost, I cant see where a project like this would come out ahead in the total value when its all done. And it would mean every night/weekend for a log time working on the boat... and that time is worth a lot.

We did run into some very good people at Banana Belt, Amy was a good help in answering a thousand questions, really she is the best Broker that we have ran across so far, she seams to know so much about every make out there. We also ran into a couple that has had 15 boats over the last 40 years cruised up to Alaska on a few of them and also have a boat in Florida. And have owned several of the Boats we like. They offered some good tips on what to look for with our type of cruising in mind and the overall use of the boat. We are still just looking at the surface level of the layouts/styles they offered up things like how are you going to cook? Electric or Propane? How much time do you really want to spend on wood work? How much time are you really going to spend on the hook? Is there enough room for all of your food/junk for a week? Two weeks? Are we buying it for us or to take people out or just a floating apartment. They have had a Bayliner in the past and loved it. He did offer some good tips on hull styles. He said that the bayliner is nice, as its fast if you want it to be, but it will beat you up in rough seas, where the Defever will be slow but a nice ride in all but the worst weather.

So with all that said, we still need to keep looking at more boats.

I still want on a CHB/GB but the couple recommended if we do, don't fall in love with the wood as you will be cursing it in 2 years unless I like never ending projects. He has had a 32 GB in wood, he loved it but said to never buy a wood boat unless its all I can afford. He also has had a CHB, he loved that boat, said it was perfect in every way but its construction methods were lacking. It was not built to last 40 years unless its always been in good hands. Look for leaking windows, leaking teak decks, leaking fuel tanks and poor fit/finish of the interior floor that always has you guessing if its going to give way as they always make a lot of noise when your walking on them. He said for our $$ and our age and ideal use he would lean towards the 3888 unless I had the patents of a sailor and the time off of work to burn and he would recommend a DeFeaver.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:39 AM   #12
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Greetings,
Mr. RR. Seems like you have matters well in hand. Exploring your options and having fun. THAT'S the way to do it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:28 PM   #13
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We looked at the Bayliner 32's and 38's as well as many others before seeing a Carver Voyager 370 and falling in love with it. Its got the layout of a larger pilot house in a more compact footprint. We looked at about 6 of them before buying ours and couldn't be happier. We got our '96 for ~$60k in Portland and shipped it up to Olympia. We've been all over the San Juan's and gulf islands with it and are heading to Desolation this summer.

Easy to get around (except the engine "room"), no exterior wood, cruises well at 7knts or 15knts, separate stand up shower, great indoor and outdoor spaces, sleeps our family of 4 easily along with a pup, and at just a hair over 40ft overall it will maximizes most 40 ft. slips.

The gas engines versions are about $20k cheaper than diesel's, also there is a pretty bad review of one online (Pasco?), which I think has kept the prices down for this model, but the construction is solid on ours and I have no questions taking my family out across the straits in it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:04 PM   #14
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Thank you for the tip on the Carver Voyager 370, I have not looked at one as of yet.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
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We have started the hunt for our next boat. Our background is mostly smaller ski/jet/fishing boats with one 25í Searay Sundancer that we would take up to the San Juans. This time around we are looking for something 32í+. We are thinking floating apartment that we will stay the night on once a week as the marina is closer to work than our home, can go to the San Juans 3-5 times a summer, cruse around the Everett area and south sound a little. Very light fishing/crabbing. We would like room for guest, but also a nice stateroom open gally. Price is 65k and under. Models we have noticed so far are Californian aft cabin 35/42, Carver aft cabin, Bayliner 3270/88, Tollycraft tri-cabin, Canoe Cove Trawler and I still like the CHB aft cabin boats. I would prefer a diesel powered boat, but have noticed a lot of the Californianís and Tollycrafts are gas powered. The wife likes the Bayliners, but would prefer to have the galley up vs down and she is worried that if we get a bayliner we will never be able to sell it. In addition, she would prefer a real shower. Cabin heat is a big deal to her, she wants to be nice and warm when we are on the hook. Do we need to look for a boat with a gen set? We are not in it for the long hall with this boat. Our plan would be to keep it for 2-3 years, if we like it a lot, and use it as much as we think we might, we will upgrade to something newer or a style that more suits what we really need. If we do not use it, we will sell it off. I donít want a wood hull boat, but donít mind refinishing handrails and what not. Most of the boats we are looking at are aft cabin boats, I know this will create a few problems with fishing/crabbing. As well as making it difficult to get on/off the boat at the dock. We are in our early 40ís, Iím somewhat handy and know my way around an engine and most systems on a boat. I do not mind minor projects, but do not what to be spending the first 6 months on a major project.
The questions I have based on the info above, what boat would fill our needs best, hold its value or more importantly will we be able to re-sell in 2-3 years as I know boats are not $$ makers. For my price point, and the number of times we will hit the San Juans and for resale should I hold out for diesels? Are there other models I did not list that we should be looking at in the PNW?
We plan to buy around Spring 2020, just getting some ducks lined up now. Moreover, that brings me to a place to put this thing; ideally, we want it at the Everett Marina. Currently there is a waiting list of 1.5/2 years for a slip in the 35-45 range. Do I just wait for the ideal boat to come up for sale with a slip in the area I want? Or how does one go about this? I do not want a covered slip this time around, as we want to be out in the sun the 7 days we have it.
We are selling a Tolly 34 tricabon that may be worth your looking at. She is unque. Built in 81 but totally rebuilt with adice form Mr. Tolly himself. .. he signed her on a plaque just before his 100th bday!

Twin state of the art diesels, custom cabinetry, Kiwigrip decks, freesh gel coat, etc. YDiesel heat, genset, led lighting, aft cabin, etc etc. you are welcome to call me at 206 579 7865. .
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:45 PM   #16
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1989 Bayliner 3888, diesel heat, get set, twin Hino, propane kitchen. My wife loves this layout its #2 on her list. I kind of like it also, I am worried that a Bayliner will be hard to sell in a few years if we choose to upgrade or just get out. As there are a lot of the 3888's for sale and in watching them, they do not seam to move unless they are 45k or less and have every option + a bow thruster. Most we like are in the 60-65k range.

1983 Californian 42' LRC. A bit big for me, wife loves this boat, its in really good shape but on the tip top of our price range at 80k. We have looked at others just like this for 1/2 the price, but need twice the work. This boat is the wifes #1 but she also thinks its just too big for our first big boat.

Two thoughts... First, I think of any money spent on a boat as simply money tossed overboard. That isn't a bad thing, but I don't plan on recouping any money I spend on my boats. If I do, that is just a gift. So if you think a Bayliner 3888 would be a good fit for you (and they are nice boats) then I suggest you avoid considering resale value at this point.


Secondly, a 42' boat is a decent sized boat. However, I think with a little patience and proper instruction it shouldn't be scare you off. If it is the boat you wife really likes, and you like it as well, it may end up being a bargain. It is a lot cheaper to buy an $80k boat now than to buy a $60k boat and decide it is too small for your wants/needs in a few years.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:03 PM   #17
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Welcome, you seem off to a good start. Lot's of great advice already (create "the list", walk on a LOT of boats, update "the list" accordingly, etc). My only additional advice is to try and buy someone else's love and passion. Many of us (myself included) pour time, sweat and money into these old trawlers to modernize them but also to take care of them. When its time to sell the new owner will benefit from these refits, repairs and upgrades with virtually zero additional dollars.

Our boat has a ton of wood but it's never been varnished and we just leave it natural. Once a year we clean it only as it looks appropriate for the boat. Barely any maintenance and we get a lot of compliments on her.

Finally, as Dave said, consider looking in the 80K - 120K range. Generally speaking boats under that tend to be HUGE project boats. Also generally speaking well maintained "starter" boats tend to stay in that higher price band longer term. It always costs less to buy a better boat than to bring a "cheap" buy up to snuff. Boat in this age/price range are ALL about condition.

Like you we bought our current boat as a "starter trawler" and when we sell her we don't expect to make any money but we also know what our make and model are valued at in the PNW.

Good luck and enjoy the hunt. It's half the fun in my opinion.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:10 PM   #18
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Thank you for the tip on the Carver Voyager 370, I have not looked at one as of yet.
Take a look at the Carver 355/356. We have a 2001, 356. You said your wife prefers galley up, ours is galley down, but only a little down. The salon/galley is open concept, if that is a good way to describe it. I believe the 356 is a newer model than the 370. If Carver is a model you are considering, spend some time on the Carver yacht owners forum. Any questions you have about Carvers, I'm sure you will find answers there.

Another brand worth looking at is the Cruisers 3650/3750/375. Very similar layout to the Carver 356, just slightly bigger and a little more expensive. I really like that boat, but there weren't any decent ones available when we were looking. That being said, we are very happy with our 356.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:18 PM   #19
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BTW, I like brightwork as well. This is my first boat without any and I couldn't be happier. I'll never have another with brightwork unless I win the lottery and can pay someone to keep up with it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:52 PM   #20
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Bayliner manufactured great boats. You get a lot of bang for the buck.

The 32, 38 and 45 Bayliners of the 80's and 90's are very popular boats in the PNW.

You should be aware that those three models are tunnel hulled boats with 1/2 the props recessed in the tunnel. That creates less prop walk and so the props are not as effective when close quarter maneuvering. To make 180's and 360's require lots of throttle, turning the wheel or both in wind. Docking is difficult.

There are many owners of these Bayliners that can handle and dock with great skill. But it took a lot of practice to get to that level of boat driving.

Those three models came with Hino and other older diesel engines and some parts are getting hard or expensive to purchase.

These boats were designed during a period of high fuel prices so they were underpowered and tough to actually get on plane. They were actually marketed to compete against the inexpensive and fuel miserly Taiwan trawler invasion. It's tough to see out from the lower helm on the 38 from the bow rise hence the enclosures. There was a cottage industry in the NW installing "underhulls" to modify the soft chine to a hard chine on the 32' and 38's to increase planing surface to get the stern up and the bow down. Others were installing strakes on the hull at the bow to keep water from being flung up and into the windshield. Another mod was to extend the hull at the transom with an integrated swm platform to increase buoyancy at the stern and to lengthen the planing surface to get the stern to lift and bow down. Unrelated to the hull but the hardtop extensions from La Conner were so popular that practically every 32 and 38 has one over the cockpit.

The 45's did not suffer from bow rise as much and is a great riding boat.

If you cruise at 7 to 8 knots, the 32 and 38 will will have a level trim underway, but the minute you try to go faster than hull speed, the bow will start to rise but not make it over the hump. You will burn a lot of fuel, pick up a couple knots and make a huge wake.

The 32, 38 and 45's prices have leveled out and the boats seem to hold their value so I don't think you would lose any more than any other boat.

Geez, how did I get off subject like that.
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