Just a Few Questions about a Boat..

[beachbum29]

I've just started looking for a new (to us) trawler. I'm starting to like the Marine Trader 40' Sundeck La Bella but the decks are all covered with teak.

Are there any other similar boats in price, style & layout that doesn't have all of this teak?

I want to cruise not refinish brightwork...


Another thing, I saw a Defever 40' with a Perkins & Lehman engines. What were they thinking? Or is it just me? The boat is priced pretty cheap but I wonder what else has been butchered?

thanks,
Dave

 

[Nomad Willy]

I think you were referring to a boat w one engine of each manufacturer.

I don't consider this a "butchered" boat at all. What would you do if one of your Lehman's or Perkins engines died and you had limited funds and a cheap but excellent engine turned up for sale but was a Perkins? If you were smart you'd put it in your boat.

Re this question we had a thread on it some time ago. Go take a look and after reading about it you may then see the "bastardized" boat as a very good buy. Only if it turns out to be of course. Play on the fact that others will scoff at it too. You could make a very nice deal on a good boat.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. Eric. While I agree with you, mismatched engines should pose no problem, the issue of "spares" might.

 

[beachbum29]

I think you were referring to a boat w one engine of each manufacturer.

I don't consider this a "butchered" boat at all. What would you do if one of your Lehman's or Perkins engines died and you had limited funds and a cheap but excellent engine turned up for sale but was a Perkins? If you were smart you'd put it in your boat.

Re this question we had a thread on it some time ago. Go take a look and after reading about it you may then see the "bastardized" boat as a very good buy. Only if it turns out to be of course. Play on the fact that others will scoff at it too. You could make a very nice deal on a good boat.

That's some good advice. Guess I'll give it a closer look. It also fits into my cheapness mentality...

 

[Marin]

Be interesting to see what the props do in terms of thrust when the engines are synchronized. Will it be equal or not?

For many years American Diesel offered a new drop- in replacement for the FL120. It, too, was a marinized Ford of England six cylinder diesel but it was 150 hp instead of 120, and at the time Ford made it new. I don't know what American Diesel did to it but it was a direct drop-in when they were done. Same mounts, same height, mated up the same transmission, etc.

Several members of the GB forum had/have boats with one of these engines in place of one of the original FL120s and so far as I recall they did not present any operational challenges. I don't know if they had to use a different prop on the higher power engine.

 

[beachbum29]

That's the $$$ question

 

[Baker]

RTF, so direct and to the point!!!!! A VERY VERY valid point!!! Two sets of spares would suck!!!

TO answer the OP's question and as an avid Yachtworld junkie.... Marine Trader also makes a "Tradewinds" model that is mostly free of teak. Now you may find some teak on the sundeck but that is it. I personally am not a fan of buying an older boat with teak decks but this would not bother me as much as most of the decking has been covered all of it's life(by the hardtop of the sundeck). Also the Heritage East sundecks. Again, usually only the sundeck is teak. Hyatt makes a completely teak free sundeck MY and in my opinion one of the best quality Taiwanese boats. I base that opinion largely on the fact that their windows don't leak like many of the Marine Trader types. Also Jefferson makes some good boats without much teak. And while they are built in Taiwan, they are commissioned in Jefferson(ville?) Indiana. So there are a LARGE number of these boats that have spent their ENTIRE lives in fresh water... Californian made some handsome sundeck boats in the mid 80s with Good ole American craftsmanship(they truly are well built). The Californians had some teak on them but nor decks. Hatteras also has some good looking well built Sundecks although they are powered for planing performance and I do not know if that is attractive to you.

That should get ya started!!!

 

[Baker]

Oh yeah....almost forgot. The CHB/Present would also be a good choice and in your size range. The Present 42 is HUGE for a 42ft boat.

 

[Chuck Gould]

I've just started looking for a new (to us) trawler. I'm starting to like the Marine Trader 40' Sundeck La Bella but the decks are all covered with teak.

Are there any other similar boats in price, style & layout that doesn't have all of this teak?

I want to cruise not refinish brightwork...


thanks,
Dave

According to popular usage of the word, your decks aren't technically "brightwork", at least they shouldn't be. Brightwork is teak that has been varnished, (although protected with epoxy, etc, would still be brightwork as the wood has not been painted out). You shouldn't ever varnish a teak deck. If they look like they have some finish now, and especially if it looks sort of orange, that's not actually varnish; it's Cetol.

We had teak decks on our 36 Sundowner. If you scrub the decks each time you wash the boat, they should stay in acceptable shape between annual "brightenings" with a mild solution of oaxalic acid.

If the boat you are interested in has teak decks, it quite likely has some actual brightwork as well. Yeah, it is a lot of work. Our 40 Eagle has teak quarterboards and a teak cap rail, a lot less exterior teak than the Sundowner had. Not being as young and ambitious as once was, I think less teak is better.

Some will say a boat without any teak looks like a Clorox bottle. However, if the alternative is totally neglected teak decks and trim, a well kept Clorox bottle is probably more attractive.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin RE post #5 .... Of course. The engines are slightly different in disp but otherwise just about exactly the same. I'm sure one will never notice the difference. The biggest difference is probably the name on the valve cover ..... If they were proud enough to put one there. They didn't on my Mitsu. Could be an advantage too if the service side of the engine was on the other side. Other advantages (not so obvious) may emerge.

 

[beachbum29]

According to popular usage of the word, your decks aren't technically "brightwork", at least they shouldn't be. Brightwork is teak that has been varnished, (although protected with epoxy, etc, would still be brightwork as the wood has not been painted out). You shouldn't ever varnish a teak deck. If they look like they have some finish now, and especially if it looks sort of orange, that's not actually varnish; it's Cetol.

We had teak decks on our 36 Sundowner. If you scrub the decks each time you wash the boat, they should stay in acceptable shape between annual "brightenings" with a mild solution of oaxalic acid.

If the boat you are interested in has teak decks, it quite likely has some actual brightwork as well. Yeah, it is a lot of work. Our 40 Eagle has teak quarterboards and a teak cap rail, a lot less exterior teak than the Sundowner had. Not being as young and ambitious as once was, I think less teak is better.

Some will say a boat without any teak looks like a Clorox bottle. However, if the alternative is totally neglected teak decks and trim, a well kept Clorox bottle is probably more attractive.

yea, you're correct. but there is plenty of teak everywhere else & I'm not a spring chicken anymore...

 

[beachbum29]

Marin RE post #5 .... Of course. The engines are slightly different in disp but otherwise just about exactly the same. I'm sure one will never notice the difference. The biggest difference is probably the name on the valve cover ..... If they were proud enough to put one there. They didn't on my Mitsu. Could be an advantage too if the service side of the engine was on the other side. Other advantages (not so obvious) may emerge.

I was concerned about the 2 engines not being equal and one pulling more than the other creating a handling issue.

 

[beachbum29]

RTF, so direct and to the point!!!!! A VERY VERY valid point!!! Two sets of spares would suck!!!

TO answer the OP's question and as an avid Yachtworld junkie.... Marine Trader also makes a "Tradewinds" model that is mostly free of teak. Now you may find some teak on the sundeck but that is it. I personally am not a fan of buying an older boat with teak decks but this would not bother me as much as most of the decking has been covered all of it's life(by the hardtop of the sundeck). Also the Heritage East sundecks. Again, usually only the sundeck is teak. Hyatt makes a completely teak free sundeck MY and in my opinion one of the best quality Taiwanese boats. I base that opinion largely on the fact that their windows don't leak like many of the Marine Trader types. Also Jefferson makes some good boats without much teak. And while they are built in Taiwan, they are commissioned in Jefferson(ville?) Indiana. So there are a LARGE number of these boats that have spent their ENTIRE lives in fresh water... Californian made some handsome sundeck boats in the mid 80s with Good ole American craftsmanship(they truly are well built). The Californians had some teak on them but nor decks. Hatteras also has some good looking well built Sundecks although they are powered for planing performance and I do not know if that is attractive to you.

That should get ya started!!!

giving me plenty of great homework! thanks!

 

[Marin]

I was concerned about the 2 engines not being equal and one pulling more than the other creating a handling issue.

Eric is most likely correct in this instance. While the American Diesel drop-in replacement for the Ford Lehman 120 was 150 hp instead of 120, and it was a currently manufactured Ford engine as opposed to the ancient Ford engine that was the base for the FL120, the two engines are similar in displacement and rpm range. So while the 150 hp engine won't be working as hard, I suspect the difference will not be seen at the prop.

If you wanted both engines to be running at the same percent of load, then you'd have to re-prop the 150 hp engine to make it work harder at the same rpm as the 120 hp engine.

 

[beachbum29]

Eric is most likely correct in this instance. While the American Diesel drop-in replacement for the Ford Lehman 120 was 150 hp instead of 120, and it was a currently manufactured Ford engine as opposed to the ancient Ford engine that was the base for the FL120, the two engines are similar in displacement and rpm range. So while the 150 hp engine won't be working as hard, I suspect the difference will not be seen at the prop.

If you wanted both engines to be running at the same percent of load, then you'd have to re-prop the 150 hp engine to make it work harder at the same rpm as the 120 hp engine.

I just gave that one a good look on my 22" hd monitor & I'm not liking what I saw. Looks like a bunch of patchwork has been done. Just gave a Hyatt 37 sundeck a quick look & that's much closer to what I'm looking for. No outside teak & centerline aft queen berth. Wife loved the flybridge lounge. But it had 300 hp cats.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin says;

"If you wanted both engines to be running at the same percent of load, then you'd have to re-prop the 150 hp engine to make it work harder at the same rpm as the 120 hp engine."

Who cares if one engine is burning 5% less or more fuel? The important thing is to be synced w twins ... you can buy that can't ya Marin? ......... Oh I see where you are on that (I think) ... You're thinking the boat won't go straight and of course there will be a tiny bit more thrust on one engine but I'll bet that too is/would be fly stuff.

 

[Marin]

I totally agree that running one engine under less load than the other one is no big deal. But some people on this forum--- including you I seem to recall--- get all wrapped around the axle at the thought of an engine running at 1 percent less than what Steve D'Antonio says they're supposed to be running at.

So the different prop comment was aimed at the anal loading crowd (have at it RTF). I personally wouldn't worry about it. The engine certainly won't, at least not in this case.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,

 

[FlyWright]

It seems to me that there are enough good boats out there with matching engines and no teak decks, that I wouldn't give the boat a second thought. Baker has put together a nice list of potential candidates.

 

[beachbum29]

It seems to me that there are enough good boats out there with matching engines and no teak decks, that I wouldn't give the boat a second thought. Baker has put together a nice list of potential candidates.

a Hyatt 37 sundeck really caught my eye but I can only find 1 for sale. it does have the 3208's though...

 

[Peter B]

I was concerned about the 2 engines not being equal and one pulling more than the other creating a handling issue.

Just out of technical and theoretical interest, although I would be wary of a boat with odd engines, I must say, wouldn't the best way to counter the above concern be to put and mark exact mid ships on the wheel, then adjust the engines until the boat ran straight, for any given speed. Over time one would know what different conditions called for.

 

[Marin]

Peter--- That would work if you could put up with the God-awful thrumming and audible pulsing of a pair of engines running out of sync with each other.

 

[beachbum29]

Just out of technical and theoretical interest, although I would be wary of a boat with odd engines, I must say, wouldn't the best way to counter the above concern be to put and mark exact mid ships on the wheel, then adjust the engines until the boat ran straight, for any given speed. Over time one would know what different conditions called for.

I'm sure that could be done but my mission is to relax and have fun and that sounds like far too much work...

BTW, after giving the images of the boat a good scouring, I realized that the whole boat was pretty much a hack job.

 

[markpierce]

We don't need no stinkin' teak decks.

 

[beachbum29]

Any opinions on Kha Shing boats?

 

[Baker]

Any opinions on Kha Shing boats?

Standard Taiwanese boat. If I am not mistaken, they are loaded with teak???? Anyway, just one of those deals where it would be a boat by boat basis. There is nothing inherently wrong with them. The Heritage east, Hyatt, Jefferson I think would be the better choice simply out of consistent quality of build. They generally just show better on a consistent basis. Whereas the likes of Marine Trader and Kha Shing are little bit more like a box of chocolates. Please realize I am not ragging on the MTs and Kha Shings, I just think you will have to do a little more legwork to find the right one.

With that said, there is an MT owners assoc...MTOA. If you do think about going that route, the MTOA might be a good resource.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
I think the Marine Trader Owners Association is now Marine TRAWLER Owners Association. Open to any and all. MTOA - Marine Trawler Owners Association
Hopefully posting this link is not against the rules....
http://www.mtoa.net/

 

[Peter B]

Peter--- That would work if you could put up with the God-awful thrumming and audible pulsing of a pair of engines running out of sync with each other.

Aha, we'll there yah go...another plus for single engines, no such dramas. No, I'm not starting another single versus twin thing...just say in'

Hey Marin, off topic briefly, but I noticed in that tranquility post of the canal narrow boat, you had no seat. That would throw a dampener on sitting out there, cruising along, flat out at 4 mph, supping a coffee, relaxing on a seat with the tiller under your arm. The one we had had a semicircular seat out back. Did you have stand to steer that one?

 

[knotheadcharters]

Beachbum, I would not be concerned with the higher HP trawlers, I have a 48 Californian sundeck with Detroit 6-71Ti's with 450 hp each. At 1100 rpms I am only burning 3.3 gallons per hour per motor. Some here may say thats alot but thats running 10kts. They burn 1.5 and are only doing 6kts. Not to mention when you need to beat a storm 16kts will get you out of it alot sooner, and at that speed I'm only burning 15-18 gph. As far as the mismatched engines as long as you can sync them to each other I wouldn't think it would matter.

 

[Chuck Gould]

As far as the mismatched engines as long as you can sync them to each other I wouldn't think it would matter.

I've never operated a vessel with mismatched twins, but I'll advance a theory by which that would seem to make sense. Propulsion results from a prop of a given diameter and pitch turning a certain number of RPM. If the gearboxes are the same, and the load is obviously the same on each side, then the engine RPM would need to be the same. Developing that RPM will require X amount of torque and horsepower. The engine rated for slightly higher HP will simply be running at a bit less of its rated capacity in order to turn the prop X times per minute under the same load, but they should be running the same number of RPM.

Or, not. Somebody who has operated a boat with mismatched twins is encouraged to correct my theory if it doesn't apply.