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Old 10-30-2017, 05:36 AM   #21
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Is this one of those low draft boats used for fly fishing in shallow waters? center consoles normally have more free board, at least the ones I am familiar with. It went under amazingly quick.

I have not been on a CC in many years, but I don't recall them having much of a bilge area to collect a large amount of water to cause that.

It looks more like a swamp and fill due to the low freeboard.
That was my other first thought-that it looked like a bay boat hull, instead of an offshore deep vee. They are popular for fishing the flats, around where I live, and have very little draft, but it's no fun to be in one in any kind of sea.

Both my boats are deep vees, and while you can poop them, it's pretty hard to stuff the bow if they are trimmed right.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:21 AM   #22
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Something else going on.

Looked very low in the water and a little sluggish as if the boat had water below the decks. CCs usually are self draining and only a fool would run the breaking inlet ankle deep in water.

Not a flats boat...usually they have small cockpits for this very reason. Looked low sided, like some of the old Aquasport boats, but could have just looked that way from water inside or the way it was riding from trim in general.

Would guess the tabs were down, but if there was water in the boat, the tab thing is most likely less relavent ...but again would show questionable seamanship in those conditions.

One thing, looked like the length of the boat was exactly wrong for the period and size of the waves. The stern still was elevated as the tip of the bow was in the back of the front wave. The buoyancy of the bow wasnt enough at that point to lift the foredeck out of the wave in front. Had a 26 Shamrock do that a couple times, but I had the tabs up, little water in the bilge and the Shammie bow has a lot more buoyancy.

Not hard to submarine a boat like the video, but not all that common either.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:40 AM   #23
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Is this one of those low draft boats used for fly fishing in shallow waters? center consoles normally have more free board, at least the ones I am familiar with. It went under amazingly quick.

I have not been on a CC in many years, but I don't recall them having much of a bilge area to collect a large amount of water to cause that.

It looks more like a swamp and fill due to the low freeboard.

No it is not a flats skiff. It's an center console built for offshore/nearshore fishing. Much, much bigger than a flats boat and much heavier.

Not that it matters really, but a skiff would have handled completely different in that situation. They are pretty light and tend to bounce from wave to wave. You can stick the bow on a skiff for sure, but it's more of an abrupt thing, not slow like this situation. The cockpits are small on flats boats to give more raised deck area for fishing, not so much to keep the water out, though I guess that could be a side benefit. Some skiffs are self bailing some, usually the technical poling boats like Hell's Bay, are not. You can easily swamp a skiff if you fill the cockpit with water, I've almost done it twice, but it happens in a different way. Hard to explain but easy to see,

Odd that this boat is handling like that. Looks heavy to me. That is a HUGE fish box that washes out of the boat when it sinks, it looked empty to me but maybe not?
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:30 AM   #24
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Quote:

Not hard to submarine a boat like the video, but not all that common either.
I was in a 17 foot Whaler of a friend where we submarined it coming down a wave (not too different from that video). I thought we were done for, but it shook it off with water running out the tramsom like crazy as the bow came back up. I would love to have had a picture of our faces when we looked at each other after it happened.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:37 AM   #25
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I avoid videos that ask one to sign in.
No sign in required on this one.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:54 AM   #26
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Something else going on.

Looked very low in the water and a little sluggish as if the boat had water below the decks. CCs usually are self draining and only a fool would run the breaking inlet ankle deep in water.

Not a flats boat...usually they have small cockpits for this very reason. Looked low sided, like some of the old Aquasport boats, but could have just looked that way from water inside or the way it was riding from trim in general.

Would guess the tabs were down, but if there was water in the boat, the tab thing is most likely less relavent ...but again would show questionable seamanship in those conditions.

One thing, looked like the length of the boat was exactly wrong for the period and size of the waves. The stern still was elevated as the tip of the bow was in the back of the front wave. The buoyancy of the bow wasnt enough at that point to lift the foredeck out of the wave in front. Had a 26 Shamrock do that a couple times, but I had the tabs up, little water in the bilge and the Shammie bow has a lot more buoyancy.

Not hard to submarine a boat like the video, but not all that common either.
I think you are probably right. I'll bet he took a smaller wave earlier and got a big, but non-fatal slug of water in the boat. then as the bow went down on the final wave, all that water sloshed forward, and down she went.

The big difference with a Whaler is all the inherent buoyancy. The boat in the video sank like a rock where the whaler would just swamp and at least have a chance to keep going.
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Old 10-30-2017, 09:54 AM   #27
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Something else going on.

Looked very low in the water and a little sluggish as if the boat had water below the decks.

Have to agree! There has to be a lot of water in his bilge. CCs don't run that low in the water. Even at the speed he was running that bow should have been riding higher than it was.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:24 AM   #28
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I think you are probably right. I'll bet he took a smaller wave earlier and got a big, but non-fatal slug of water in the boat. then as the bow went down on the final wave, all that water sloshed forward, and down she went.

The big difference with a Whaler is all the inherent buoyancy. The boat in the video sank like a rock where the whaler would just swamp and at least have a chance to keep going.
Very true.

I was a salt water fly fishing guide for 12 years, so I've got a lot of hours at the wheel of inshore boats, specifically flats skiffs. Something just seems off the boat in the video is too sluggish.

I would not want to be in that inlet in those conditions in my skiff, but the one advantage a skiff has in that situation is that it responds very quickly to throttle changes. You can "drive the boat" going slowly when needed then popping if from one wave to the next with a quick burst of throttle, tabs up and motor slight trimmed up, which would raise the bow even if only for a key second. The increased maneuverability also allows you to pick the best line through the inlet, sort of like a surfer. Heck, they run in 6 inches of water, sometimes it's even possible, depending on location, to run the super shallow edges of the inlet and miss the big breaking waves altogether. I've done that on the Gulf coast passes, though I doubt it would work in Jupiter inlet.

If the boat was overweighted and sluggish it would negate those advantages, making it just a trawler with low sides and an open cockpit.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:35 AM   #29
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If the video is legitimate, then the boat had serious problems before it ever hit that wave. Not just a little water, but a lot of water, sitting very low, already sinking. I've never seen a center console running as it was. The bow was running very low in the water before it even hit the final wave. Otherwise it never would have dived as it did and a little dive wouldn't have sunk it. It looked like a stunt but would have been a very expensive one. Just need the rest of the story.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:01 AM   #30
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There are suggestions that it was full of fish and the guy had past fines in the $50K range.

Will be interesting what they find once it is raised!
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:51 PM   #31
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There are suggestions that it was full of fish and the guy had past fines in the $50K range.

Will be interesting what they find once it is raised!
That would explain the giant fish box that floated loose as soon as water came in.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:24 PM   #32
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Kevin wrote;
“His bow sure seems to be down, and or he was going way too fast and buried the bow.”

Indeed but it’s more of a stern up issue it appears to me. Look at the vid again. All seems at least OK until the stern sea lifts his stern up a lot. Almost instantly the fwd deck plunges below the water.

So in fact he could have been going too slow. He’d have been fine if he’d hung on the backside of the wave and gone fast enough to keep his stern away from that stern sea.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:34 PM   #33
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In a open boat it happens just like in the video. Water comes over the bow filling the boat.
Yup, bow rider, no place to hide from the weather too.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:37 PM   #34
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Kevin wrote;
“His bow sure seems to be down, and or he was going way too fast and buried the bow.”

Indeed but it’s more of a stern up issue it appears to me. Look at the vid again. All seems at least OK until the stern sea lifts his stern up a lot. Almost instantly the fwd deck plunges below the water.

So in fact he could have been going too slow. He’d have been fine if he’d hung on the backside of the wave and gone fast enough to keep his stern away from that stern sea.
I am told and believe, adjust the the throttle(s) to stay either on top of the wave or just behind the top.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:50 PM   #35
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That video would make a good training tool in a boating course.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:28 PM   #36
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Jupiter can be a dangerous inlet. In 2010 a garlington 47 sport fish named water dog lost her very experienced owner/captain on a 4' day. (Boat righted itself Capt fell out of the fly ridge and broke his neck).This fellow looks to be on the green side which is where the shallowest water is and where the surfers like to catch the waves on ebb tides. This also looks like it was an ebb tide against a nw wind and a SW swell. Because of the shallowing depth and ebb tidal flow the waves slow down and get closer together as they jack up in height. When this happens you need to constantly adjust speed, slow and fast as well as course to avoid a broach just like a surfer. Clearly this didn't happen. The wave he was on looks like it collapsed into a slower possibly standing one in front of it causing his bow to pearl which caused an immediate broach and rollover. Nothing to do but swim at that point.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:28 PM   #37
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I am told and believe, adjust the the throttle(s) to stay either on top of the wave or just behind the top.
Yeah me too.....maybe 1 out of every 100 breaking inlet runs have I ever been able to do that.

Maybe west coast inlets with pacific rollers, but short steep east coast breaking inlets rarely cooperate like the text book says.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:58 PM   #38
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Jupiter can be a dangerous inlet. In 2010 a garlington 47 sport fish named water dog lost her very experienced owner/captain on a 4' day. (Boat righted itself Capt fell out of the fly ridge and broke his neck).This fellow looks to be on the green side which is where the shallowest water is and where the surfers like to catch the waves on ebb tides. This also looks like it was an ebb tide against a nw wind and a SW swell. Because of the shallowing depth and ebb tidal...
Here’s a short write up of Waterdog. The article also references 10 deaths at the inlet since 1998 and it’s a 10 year old article.

'It Got Bad Real Fast'

On the Washington and Oregon Coast we were taught ebb is evil and flood is fine. Typically onshore winds pile up against the ebb so you get short steep waves.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:10 PM   #39
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Yup, bow rider, no place to hide from the weather too.
Here's the news broadcast and interview with the rescuer.

Drone video captures teen rescuing man from capsized boat in Jupiter | WPEC
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:39 PM   #40
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Surfer was a 13 year old kid! Wow. That's was an awesome rescue by that kid. He understood the break and the currents and knew the boater would have trouble near the jetty.

I always got nervous surfing next to jetties. Currents. Fishermen throwing hooks near me. Big toothy fish. Etc.
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