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04-02-2016, 08:37 AM
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#21
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Guru
City: Montgomery, TX
Vessel Name: Encore
Vessel Model: Whitby 42
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 844
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Consider the sails a get home engine.
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04-02-2016, 09:32 AM
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#22
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"Motorsailers should do well do well on a reach."
Perhaps in the 1930's .
Todays MS takes full advantage of the past 70-90 years.
With power operation the only downside is the weight of the sail rig (1/2 ton)and perhaps 40% extra weight in the keel.
On a 40 ft boat 3- 5 tons of ballast would come up to an extra 6-10 HP required motoring perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 GPH in extra fuel burn.
You get the better ocean ride and get home engine for a buck an hour extra .
Sailing, the only MS downside is carrying the weight of engine & fuel which might be a bother in 2K of breeze , but most folks just push the button anyway when SOA is under 5K.
For many a modern diesel would be about the same weight as a noisemaker , and provide the came creature comforts.
The "old 50-50" MS is as dead as a hand crank on a Caddy.
The IN the boat vs ON the boat lifestyle issue remains.
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04-02-2016, 12:50 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Juneau Alaska
Vessel Name: Arctic Traveller
Vessel Model: Defever 49 RPH
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 607
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First, you need to decide what you want your boat to do. Many dream of blue water cruising but never do, even if they have the correct boat. A motor sailer can be a great blue water boat with unlimited range, but will be much more expensive than a Bayliner. If you only plan to cruise lakes, bays and sounds, a Bayliner may be suitable, but I've always said that you get a lot of boat for your money with a Bayliner, but you don't spend much money. If you truly want to cruise in open waters you need a boat that is much better built than a Bayliner.
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04-02-2016, 08:35 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
City: Norfolk, VA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan
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I'd like to learn more about the joystick steering (no wheel) setup. . .but, if I can get a hold of the Broker I think that boat is good as sold! New pictures posted, it's as close to perfect as I have seen. Need to join the Schuckers group and start reading! Thanks for the lead
You don't really sail a motorsailer (you can, but. . .). You're supposed to "motor-sail" it ie., run the engine in gear with the sails up. In the light winds of the Chesapeake I've motor-sailed my Ranger33. 3.5-4 knots in light winds, sails only. . .or I could run the engine in gear and drive it to 5.5 knots easy at ~40% less throttle than if I was under power alone. Having the sails up really stiffens the boats motion as well.
Artic Traveller, the most immediate thing I want to do is go fishing and be able to take people out and have fun. Second, explore as much of the Bay as I can and as often as possible with out burning a hole in my pocket with the fuel bill. This will also be home as I live aboard. . .
I do want to spend a year or two cruising the Caribbean. Would be great if that happened in a couple years, but no real time line yet. I started making plans to do it in the R33, but refit/rebuild costs are close to $20k and it would take a couple years. . .of which using as I'd like described above probably wouldn't work out.
I might have to suck it up and plan to sell whatever and buy a third boat in the future
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but yall are awesome!
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04-02-2016, 08:53 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Longboat Key, FL
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,196
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I really like that Schucker. I could see cruising just as you describe. I would hope the survey confirms what looks to be a very nice vessel.
__________________
Larry
"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
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04-02-2016, 09:23 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: Juneau Alaska
Vessel Name: Arctic Traveller
Vessel Model: Defever 49 RPH
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool beans
Artic Traveller, the most immediate thing I want to do is go fishing and be able to take people out and have fun. Second, explore as much of the Bay as I can and as often as possible with out burning a hole in my pocket with the fuel bill. This will also be home as I live aboard. I do want to spend a year or two cruising the Caribbean.
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For fishing and bay cruising, a Bayliner should be just fine, saving you quite a bit of money in the purchase process. I'm not sure I'd want to cross the Gulf Stream in one though, but when that time comes (many years down the road?), sell the Bayliner and buy a more capable boat. By then you will have much more experience and know better what kind of boat suits your new needs.
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04-02-2016, 10:01 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Traveller
For fishing and bay cruising, a Bayliner should be just fine, saving you quite a bit of money in the purchase process. I'm not sure I'd want to cross the Gulf Stream in one though, but when that time comes (many years down the road?), sell the Bayliner and buy a more capable boat. By then you will have much more experience and know better what kind of boat suits your new needs.
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I'd have no concern about crossing the gulf stream with a Bayliner. I'd obviously want to choose a good window. Now, I wouldn't go further than the Bahamas, not on south in the Caribbean. As travel steps up to Cuba, I'd take one.
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04-02-2016, 10:57 PM
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#28
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Veteran Member
City: Tarpon Springs
Vessel Name: Conchy Jac
Vessel Model: Rosborough RF 246
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 36
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What do you want to do with the boat? that is the first question. Second, is what can you afford that will do what you want to do. I think this is kinda simple. You don't go fall in love with a motor sail that has masts that can't get where you want or goes to slow to get there in the time you need to be there! $50K is a tiny budget. My little trailer trawler was over that used but does what I need her to do. That's my thought or find the girl that already has the boat, lol.
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04-03-2016, 04:21 AM
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#29
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,218
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Good choice Mr Beans.
I am a complete fan of motorsailers, although they have a bad reputation. Power boaters see them as sailboats. Sail boaters see them as powerboats. They are neither.
To me, it is plenty of gain and no pain, unless you use your boat primarily onprotected inland water.
The biggest plus is stability in rough water. Roll reduction is as good asparavanes; and almost as effective as active stabilizers. Try finding a cruising boat for $50k equipped with another effective type of stabilization.
The get home propulsion is also a plus, without having another engine crammedin limited space and unprotected props.
A motorsailer is not a sailboat. It isn't designed to win races therefore the sail and rigging design is simple, robust anduser-friendly. It may only sail at 4 knots ratherthan 6 in a "real" sail boat in similar conditions, but I'mhappy with that. The motor & sails are designed to be used together in most situations, but the option is there to use only one or the other.
I travel under motor & sail the majority of the time. Raising & trimming the sails takes less than 3 minutes whensinglehanded. With a self tacking headsail it's set & forget unless conditions change substantially. Fine tuning toget another 0.1 knot is optional.
I haven't done any maintenance on my sail rigging in 3 years, other than aquick inspection, and lubrication of the mast tracks. I wish I could say the same for the rest of the boat.
The reward for motorsailing is greater stability than a conventional full displacement power boat, better economy, maybe a slight gain in top speed, get-home redundancy, and something to tinker with during a long offshore cruise.
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04-03-2016, 05:37 AM
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#30
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Guru
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossigal
or find the girl that already has the boat, lol.
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Yeah, I am still looking for a gal who owns a Nordhaven 47'...haha.
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04-03-2016, 06:23 AM
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#31
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan
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From what you want, this is probably as good as yo can get. Price seems very reasonable also.
There are a lot of steel Dutch built boats like that, in Europe, but they cost so much more.
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04-03-2016, 06:44 AM
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#32
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,218
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This would be my choice in that price range, but maybe the cockpit isn't big enough for you.
https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/.../#.VwD_rzZ97x4
Or if that doesn't have enough space, the Gulfstars are good value. They are a bargain because they have a reputation of being rolly. The motorsailers solve that problem, but still are in the same price range as the non-sail version.
1975 Gulfstar 44 MKII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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04-03-2016, 07:26 AM
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#33
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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I don't see winches and so forth, for sail handling, in the Shucker pictures. Not obvious what it takes -- and where you have to be -- to raise and lower any sails...
Perhaps I can't see it because I'm only a novice at actual sailing...
Anyway, it looks significantly different from the Nauticat motorsailers we shopped on, long ago....
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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04-03-2016, 08:03 AM
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#34
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Guru
City: Solomons Island Md
Vessel Name: Fryedaze
Vessel Model: MC 42 (Overseas Co) Monk 42
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,721
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04-03-2016, 08:27 AM
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#35
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
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Greetings,
Mr. f. Good grief! 1200 rpm on one engine? Severely underloaded. It's gonna self destruct! Or worse...
__________________
RTF
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04-03-2016, 08:49 AM
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#36
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan
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That Gulfstar seems to have a good sized engine room !
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04-03-2016, 12:21 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
City: Norfolk, VA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan
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Looked at that boat back in January. The broker I contacted wasn't the listing broker and off and on spent the last 2 months pulling teeth trying to get a couple questions answered. Just decided to put in a low offer a couple days ago, and found the "sale pending" notice on YW
Oh well, just adds to my dislike of brokers. . .I visited the boat though, 4 hour personal inspection. . .I will say, it was almost too big. Also has a laundry list of big ticket items to be fixed. I hope whoever buys it gets a good survey
I like the MKI interior layout better, it's more reflects the trawler layout. This one had the mast coming right down into the middle of the salon and it bothered the crap out of me.
Much research and many more things to ponder on. Some of the Schuckers have been "trawlerized", so I assume they either didn't have the winches or they were removed.
About buying and selling short term, I think the Bayliner could be bought and sold a couple years later for about what it was purchased for?
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04-04-2016, 10:24 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
City: Perth
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 374
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If that Schucker was for sale here in Australia - even considering the exchange rate - I would snap it up !!
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04-04-2016, 10:40 AM
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#39
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogranjac1
If that Schucker was for sale here in Australia - even considering the exchange rate - I would snap it up !!
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I love how all of you are saying you'd snap it up, none having seen it or checked it out. Typically when something sounds too good to be true, it is.
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04-04-2016, 11:07 AM
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#40
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TF Site Team/Forum Founder
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Consider the sails a get home engine.
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Consider the sails stabilizers!!!! And surprisingly, many M/S have twin engines!!! I have seen a Fisher with twin baby Lehmans!
Nauticats are awesome boats.....but boy are the pricey!!! Cheoy Lee made some nice M/S as well. If I were going to cruise the world, it would be in a motorsailer.
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
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