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Old 04-02-2016, 09:37 AM   #21
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Consider the sails a get home engine.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:32 AM   #22
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"Motorsailers should do well do well on a reach."

Perhaps in the 1930's .

Todays MS takes full advantage of the past 70-90 years.

With power operation the only downside is the weight of the sail rig (1/2 ton)and perhaps 40% extra weight in the keel.

On a 40 ft boat 3- 5 tons of ballast would come up to an extra 6-10 HP required motoring perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 GPH in extra fuel burn.

You get the better ocean ride and get home engine for a buck an hour extra .

Sailing, the only MS downside is carrying the weight of engine & fuel which might be a bother in 2K of breeze , but most folks just push the button anyway when SOA is under 5K.

For many a modern diesel would be about the same weight as a noisemaker , and provide the came creature comforts.

The "old 50-50" MS is as dead as a hand crank on a Caddy.

The IN the boat vs ON the boat lifestyle issue remains.
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:50 PM   #23
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First, you need to decide what you want your boat to do. Many dream of blue water cruising but never do, even if they have the correct boat. A motor sailer can be a great blue water boat with unlimited range, but will be much more expensive than a Bayliner. If you only plan to cruise lakes, bays and sounds, a Bayliner may be suitable, but I've always said that you get a lot of boat for your money with a Bayliner, but you don't spend much money. If you truly want to cruise in open waters you need a boat that is much better built than a Bayliner.
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:35 PM   #24
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I'd like to learn more about the joystick steering (no wheel) setup. . .but, if I can get a hold of the Broker I think that boat is good as sold! New pictures posted, it's as close to perfect as I have seen. Need to join the Schuckers group and start reading! Thanks for the lead

You don't really sail a motorsailer (you can, but. . .). You're supposed to "motor-sail" it ie., run the engine in gear with the sails up. In the light winds of the Chesapeake I've motor-sailed my Ranger33. 3.5-4 knots in light winds, sails only. . .or I could run the engine in gear and drive it to 5.5 knots easy at ~40% less throttle than if I was under power alone. Having the sails up really stiffens the boats motion as well.

Artic Traveller, the most immediate thing I want to do is go fishing and be able to take people out and have fun. Second, explore as much of the Bay as I can and as often as possible with out burning a hole in my pocket with the fuel bill. This will also be home as I live aboard. . .

I do want to spend a year or two cruising the Caribbean. Would be great if that happened in a couple years, but no real time line yet. I started making plans to do it in the R33, but refit/rebuild costs are close to $20k and it would take a couple years. . .of which using as I'd like described above probably wouldn't work out.

I might have to suck it up and plan to sell whatever and buy a third boat in the future

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but yall are awesome!

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Old 04-02-2016, 09:53 PM   #25
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I really like that Schucker. I could see cruising just as you describe. I would hope the survey confirms what looks to be a very nice vessel.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:23 PM   #26
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Artic Traveller, the most immediate thing I want to do is go fishing and be able to take people out and have fun. Second, explore as much of the Bay as I can and as often as possible with out burning a hole in my pocket with the fuel bill. This will also be home as I live aboard. I do want to spend a year or two cruising the Caribbean.
For fishing and bay cruising, a Bayliner should be just fine, saving you quite a bit of money in the purchase process. I'm not sure I'd want to cross the Gulf Stream in one though, but when that time comes (many years down the road?), sell the Bayliner and buy a more capable boat. By then you will have much more experience and know better what kind of boat suits your new needs.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:01 PM   #27
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For fishing and bay cruising, a Bayliner should be just fine, saving you quite a bit of money in the purchase process. I'm not sure I'd want to cross the Gulf Stream in one though, but when that time comes (many years down the road?), sell the Bayliner and buy a more capable boat. By then you will have much more experience and know better what kind of boat suits your new needs.
I'd have no concern about crossing the gulf stream with a Bayliner. I'd obviously want to choose a good window. Now, I wouldn't go further than the Bahamas, not on south in the Caribbean. As travel steps up to Cuba, I'd take one.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:57 PM   #28
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What do you want to do with the boat? that is the first question. Second, is what can you afford that will do what you want to do. I think this is kinda simple. You don't go fall in love with a motor sail that has masts that can't get where you want or goes to slow to get there in the time you need to be there! $50K is a tiny budget. My little trailer trawler was over that used but does what I need her to do. That's my thought or find the girl that already has the boat, lol.
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:21 AM   #29
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Good choice Mr Beans.


I am a complete fan of motorsailers, although they have a bad reputation. Power boaters see them as sailboats. Sail boaters see them as powerboats. They are neither.

To me, it is plenty of gain and no pain, unless you use your boat primarily onprotected inland water.

The biggest plus is stability in rough water. Roll reduction is as good asparavanes; and almost as effective as active stabilizers. Try finding a cruising boat for $50k equipped with another effective type of stabilization.

The get home propulsion is also a plus, without having another engine crammedin limited space and unprotected props.

A motorsailer is not a sailboat. It isn't designed to win races therefore the sail and rigging design is simple, robust anduser-friendly. It may only sail at 4 knots ratherthan 6 in a "real" sail boat in similar conditions, but I'mhappy with that. The motor & sails are designed to be used together in most situations, but the option is there to use only one or the other.


I travel under motor & sail the majority of the time. Raising & trimming the sails takes less than 3 minutes whensinglehanded. With a self tacking headsail it's set & forget unless conditions change substantially. Fine tuning toget another 0.1 knot is optional.

I haven't done any maintenance on my sail rigging in 3 years, other than aquick inspection, and lubrication of the mast tracks. I wish I could say the same for the rest of the boat.

The reward for motorsailing is greater stability than a conventional full displacement power boat, better economy, maybe a slight gain in top speed, get-home redundancy, and something to tinker with during a long offshore cruise.
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Old 04-03-2016, 06:37 AM   #30
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or find the girl that already has the boat, lol.
Yeah, I am still looking for a gal who owns a Nordhaven 47'...haha.
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:23 AM   #31
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From what you want, this is probably as good as yo can get. Price seems very reasonable also.

There are a lot of steel Dutch built boats like that, in Europe, but they cost so much more.
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:44 AM   #32
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This would be my choice in that price range, but maybe the cockpit isn't big enough for you.

https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/.../#.VwD_rzZ97x4


Or if that doesn't have enough space, the Gulfstars are good value. They are a bargain because they have a reputation of being rolly. The motorsailers solve that problem, but still are in the same price range as the non-sail version.

1975 Gulfstar 44 MKII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 04-03-2016, 08:26 AM   #33
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I don't see winches and so forth, for sail handling, in the Shucker pictures. Not obvious what it takes -- and where you have to be -- to raise and lower any sails...

Perhaps I can't see it because I'm only a novice at actual sailing...


Anyway, it looks significantly different from the Nauticat motorsailers we shopped on, long ago....

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Old 04-03-2016, 09:03 AM   #34
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How about a rig like this one.
A grand banks with a hybrid twist | Soundings Online
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:27 AM   #35
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Greetings,
Mr. f. Good grief! 1200 rpm on one engine? Severely underloaded. It's gonna self destruct! Or worse...
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:49 AM   #36
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This would be my choice in that price range, but maybe the cockpit isn't big enough for you.

https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/.../#.VwD_rzZ97x4


Or if that doesn't have enough space, the Gulfstars are good value. They are a bargain because they have a reputation of being rolly. The motorsailers solve that problem, but still are in the same price range as the non-sail version.

1975 Gulfstar 44 MKII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

That Gulfstar seems to have a good sized engine room !
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Old 04-03-2016, 01:21 PM   #37
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Or if that doesn't have enough space, the Gulfstars are good value. They are a bargain because they have a reputation of being rolly. The motorsailers solve that problem, but still are in the same price range as the non-sail version.

1975 Gulfstar 44 MKII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Looked at that boat back in January. The broker I contacted wasn't the listing broker and off and on spent the last 2 months pulling teeth trying to get a couple questions answered. Just decided to put in a low offer a couple days ago, and found the "sale pending" notice on YW

Oh well, just adds to my dislike of brokers. . .I visited the boat though, 4 hour personal inspection. . .I will say, it was almost too big. Also has a laundry list of big ticket items to be fixed. I hope whoever buys it gets a good survey

I like the MKI interior layout better, it's more reflects the trawler layout. This one had the mast coming right down into the middle of the salon and it bothered the crap out of me.

Much research and many more things to ponder on. Some of the Schuckers have been "trawlerized", so I assume they either didn't have the winches or they were removed.

About buying and selling short term, I think the Bayliner could be bought and sold a couple years later for about what it was purchased for?
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:24 AM   #38
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If that Schucker was for sale here in Australia - even considering the exchange rate - I would snap it up !!
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:40 AM   #39
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If that Schucker was for sale here in Australia - even considering the exchange rate - I would snap it up !!
I love how all of you are saying you'd snap it up, none having seen it or checked it out. Typically when something sounds too good to be true, it is.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:07 PM   #40
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Consider the sails a get home engine.
Consider the sails stabilizers!!!! And surprisingly, many M/S have twin engines!!! I have seen a Fisher with twin baby Lehmans!

Nauticats are awesome boats.....but boy are the pricey!!! Cheoy Lee made some nice M/S as well. If I were going to cruise the world, it would be in a motorsailer.
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