Interesting video:

[psneeld]

psneeld NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU. Lighten up or you will have a heart attack.

We all have things that annoy the cra* out of us...that statement is one of mine...can you imagine trying to teach navrules to people that THOUGHT they knew something about boating before they took a captains class????

Heart attack????...no...just chuckling to myself with what I sometimes read here.....It's really hard sometimes to know just how much a person is kidding or overstating the obvious...or not...

At least I get all spunup in the OTF forum....never even intentionally go there.

 

[Larry M]

....A question that might be of interested in the forum is "when operating your vessel at Hull Speed, how many vessel lengths do you feel would be required to stop your vessel"?

That is a good question. My answer is, I have no idea.

 

[psneeld]

I think at my 6.3 cruising speed it would be around 3-4 boat lengths if I don't cavitate the prop, use more RPMs than I want, and don't panic shift and slam.

I think my 37 sportfish actually came off plane and could stop faster like many planning boats I've run ....I think because they fall into a rbasically a hole surrounded by water and have more hp to stop without going to full throttle.

 

[ulysses]

psneeld- I would tend to agree with you on the possible breaking force coming "off plane" that the greater contact area with the water may create.
I think my 47 ton full displacement would take about 8 boat lengths without putting the reduction gear into the side of the boat. I will test it sometime.
Another perspective is that the Summer Wind weight wise was more than four fully loaded 100 car trains- without breaks.
Another question arises- " if your anchor was 500 feet away from your wheelhouse and properly dogged down, how quickly could you or your crew deploy it"? Then if you knew you were transporting potentially explosive material in your front hold and that you were about to strike a vessel transporting the same with your bow, would you send a crew out to deploy it? Assume the crew is not your wife.

 

[psneeld]

psneeld- I would tend to agree with you on the possible breaking force coming "off plane" that the greater contact area with the water may create.
I think my 47 ton full displacement would take about 8 boat lengths without putting the reduction gear into the side of the boat. I will test it sometime.
Another perspective is that the Summer Wind weight wise was more than four fully loaded 100 car trains- without breaks.
Another question arises- " if your anchor was 500 feet away from your wheelhouse and properly dogged down, how quickly could you or your crew deploy it"? Then if you knew you were transporting potentially explosive material in your front hold and that you were about to strike a vessel transporting the same with your bow, would you send a crew out to deploy it? Assume the crew is not your wife.

Hey...I'm with you all the way...a few posts back I said that the law of tonnage DOESN'T work for 2 big boys...the ability to stop either one in that distance was impossible (as we saw)...

I also know the realities of one of these guys making a decision to ground the vessel at speed or run over a rec boat stupid enough to pull in front and stall out.

Of course one could argue that when operating in piloting waters, the anchor should be manned and ready...always was on USCG cutters I was on...but the economic realities for crewing commercial boats hasn't been addressed or supplemented with proper automated systems either.

My personal towing horror stories were one summer with all the "entry level" boaters zipping around and me maneuvering a 120 foot crane barge in a 3 knot current using a single engine, 320hp, 26 foot Shamrock assistance towing vessel. Had more scares there than all the years dealing with ships up to 399 feet all over the world and trying to preform helo ops in busy areas.

 

[ulysses]

Ahh...those were the days.
I started out on the last side wheeled steamboat on the western rivers (S.S. President) docked in an Eddie at the foot of Canal St. New Orleans passenger carrier/tourist/day trips. Big Sail area 300' 90' with forty foot height and 5' draft. Engine Telegraph down to the Engine Room took several minutes to stop a wheel and change directions if the chief engineer was awake and responding. Learned never to assume anything.
I often wonder how I dealt with the stress and where is that ability now.

 

[hfoster]

After Psneel’s post of the NavRule #9 section (b) along with a few other posts on the NavRules as well as some thoughts on this topic, I thought this may help some of us to get a better understanding of what we as Captains are faced with as we cruise.

My Grandfather was the Captain of the Arthur B. Hommer which I also severed on for 3 summers in the early 1980’s with him.

On Oct 5th 1972 The Hommer with a load of Ore was heading downbound on the Detroit River’s Fighting Island Channel. At the time the Hommer was 711’ Long. Beam 75’ and water draft 39’

At the same time a Greek Salty ship the NAVI Shipper was headed upbound unloaded. At about the buoy marker 83, the 2 vessel had a head on collision.

In chats with my Grandfather about this, I remember what he told me some of his actions were after seeing the Greek vessel was on the wrong side of the Channel. He tried to contact the Greek vessel by radio. No reply. He sounded 5 blasts from the horn. (again no reply from the Greek vessel) He also flashed his light 5 times. (again no reply from the Greek vessel.)

All of my Grandfather actions were taken within 5 minutes or so with the understanding that his vessel and crew were in danger.

His last action was to try reversing his vessel, while at the same time still trying to contact the Greek vessel.

In his words he told me this. “I knew the SOB was going to hit us. I knew I could not power aft in time to stop, but I knew I could slow enough to lessen the impact. I had the mate sound the collision alarm and told the boys in the wheel house to hang on.”

At the USCG hearing, it was found that there was NO Licensed pilot aboard the Greek vessel at the time. Also the unlicensed pilot did not have a full understanding the U.S. NavRules.

What we call RED- RIGHT- RETURN is backwards to the rest of the world. So we as skippers of our vessels need to remember that as well just in case we come across a pleasure craft being skippered by a person from another country. Not to say they would not know the NavRules, but they could get confused.

To Ulysses point of how many boat lengths does it take to stop the Vessel is a great question, which I feel every Skipper should know.

My Grandfather knew he could not stop his vessel in time, so he had to know the how long it would have taken to stop the vessel at the speed they were moving which I believe was 7 or 8 knots.

The point of all of this that even a good Captain of a vessel can be faced with bad situation. How that Captain handles that situation is the key for the safety of the vessel and its crew. In my Grandfather case, no was hurt.

The NavRules are in place for a reason and learning and understanding those NavRules is a big part of being a good Captain or even a good unlicensed Captain of your pleasure craft and the best part is, the NavRules are free.

Happy and Safe cruising to all of you.

H. Foster.

 

[Egregious]

The bigger the boat, the righter the way...

Otherwise known as the Axiom of Gross Tonnage.

Hey that was a joke. I'm not a big fan of cutesy smileys but perhaps I should have used one.

Actually there's a story that is funny to me... I was in the Virgin Islands and I was discussing with the locals how the local ferry captains could be quite aggressive, and it is common knowledge to give a wide berth even if you have the "right of way" (OK stand on vessel).

He replies, "Da bigger da boat, da righta da way mon!"

I thought that funny because I grew up boating around barges in the ICW and we learned at an early age to stay out of their way because they cannot stop even if they are far away, and they cannot always see you either. We called it "the axiom of gross tonnage."

Just sayin' the first rule is to avoid a collision in the first place, that's all.

 

[hfoster]

Hey that was a joke. I'm not a big fan of cutesy smileys but perhaps I should have used one.

Actually there's a story that is funny to me... I was in the Virgin Islands and I was discussing with the locals how the local ferry captains could be quite aggressive, and it is common knowledge to give a wide berth even if you have the "right of way" (OK stand on vessel).

He replies, "Da bigger da boat, da righta da way mon!"

I thought that funny because I grew up boating around barges in the ICW and we learned at an early age to stay out of their way because they cannot stop even if they are far away, and they cannot always see you either. We called it "the axiom of gross tonnage."

Just sayin' the first rule is to avoid a collision in the first place, that's all.

I agree with you, It is common sense rule in my book. As I stated before, I always give the Big Boys a wide Berth. They are working am I am out playing. But in those times when I come across a Ore boat, I also radio the Master and tell him what my plans are. He may have me do something else which he feels is safer for both of our vessels.

Many of times come into the Cuyahoga River (going to Shooter) Ore boats will be heading out. It can get really tight at times. I always call them and tell them my plans.

Pic of coming into the River. To the right side is where Ore boats will come out by the white stacks.

Happy cruising.

H. Foster

 

[Egregious]

Check it out: I'm heading North on the ICW behind Myrtle Beach. Some consider this "the RockPile" but that is another discussion. What do I see coming but a barge loaded with wood chips. What did I do? I called him on the VHF and turned my ass around. He stated quite clearly "I must stay center channel, do you copy?" and later "I cannot see you so please keep me apprised of your position."

I kept in constant radio contact until we came to a wider section where I pulled over to let him pass.

Not the same as the OP subject, but still the kind of crap I'm used to running into where my first response is not "who has the right of way?" but more "how can I stay out of this guy's way?"

[Edit] Some boats make a Security call when entering this stretch of the ICW, but I heard not a peep from this fellow. I guess either way the result is the same -- I do what ever is necessary to let him pass.

 

[psneeld]

He can't force you out of the channel...but reason would say 2 can't occupy the same water....so looking for a shouldering spot till he passed would have been helpful.

But if he didn't security call, wasn't flying RAM dayshapes and admitted he couldn't see you...boy would I have a field day in a hearing with that guy.

A tug with dredge pipe ran me out of the channel just north of Charleston awhile back...I had all my ducks in a row but slithered right back into the channel so I didn't make too big a deal about it.

These guys in the ICW are taking big risks if they ever slam someone unless they get their act together.

 

[THD]

Egregious-glad to hear from someone down your way. I lived in that area for a lot of years. My son lives in Sunset.

That section of the ICW, from Little River almost all the way to the Waccamaw is a pain, especially when you do meet a barge. From my days there, most used to issue a warning at either end so you would know they were coming.

 

[windmill29130]

Egregious-glad to hear from someone down your way. I lived in that area for a lot of years. My son lives in Sunset.

That section of the ICW, from Little River almost all the way to the Waccamaw is a pain, especially when you do meet a barge. From my days there, most used to issue a warning at either end so you would know they were coming.

It's a good practice to hail on 16 prior to entering the Rockpile to avoid any oncoming traffic regardless of the size, because once you are in there, turning around may be an option you regret. I suggest putting it in reverse!