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Old 09-21-2012, 06:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Come to think of it, overhang is fairly common. Like the Coot, the 60-foot, diesel-electric Keliautojas has a generous overhang.


Yes indeed, sure is nice....
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Perhaps I missed the point, but I believe he was referring to the overhang below the pilot house windows, which would absorb much of the energy of a deck sweeping wave hitting the pilot house. The eyebrow above the windows is certainly common, if not universal.
Yes. Captain Joe was referring to the overhang above the pilothouse windows, not below the windows. Flying bridges are above the pilothouse.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #23
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And a good price: Keliautojas

Nice boat.
That high nosed (photo 6) and low center of gravity (photo 85) baby looks like it can handle some powerful frontal seas, forward quarter seas, and even beam seas... but... her transom (photo 81) worries me if a real tall and fast moving following sea became present. It looks to me that the following-wave encasement-prone cup-design, that is just a few feet above a gently curved following-wave shedding transom, might make it difficult to keep her steered on the straight path required to avoid breaching possibilities. Just a cautionary observation.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:15 PM   #24
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Her transom is pretty high (please excuse the finger in the foreground).

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Old 09-21-2012, 07:17 PM   #25
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And a good price: Keliautojas

Nice boat.
David, I wish the seller would drop the price to about $50,000 so I wouldn't have to navigate around it all the time. She is kept on an end tie near Mark's Carquinez Coot and my boat.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #26
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Her transom is pretty high (please excuse the finger in the foreground).
The just a few feet tall, gently rounded transom I was referring to is where the boot stripe exists and water touches while boat is at rest.

IMHO: I believe the seemingly flat and quite high "inset-secondary" transom, with its extended cupped sides, would capture the full energy of a "tall" following sea and not allow said energy it to dissipate, i.e. slide off. Even the slightest deviation of angle to perfectly straight would thrust the waves' energy toward the resulting wave-facing cup extension. This energy burst would tend to throw the boat's forward motion and direction off course. If the following sea was aggressive enough repeat offending following-waves might make piloting an adventure to behold!

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Old 09-21-2012, 07:50 PM   #27
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Re Marin's feelings about fwd slanted pilothouse windows this one would look less like a toy w windows more vertical. But if you're running downwind in the rain those windows may stay almost dry. So may my windows on Willy. Delfin's windows look really right to me.
I agree that the boat in your shot would look nice with vertical windows, too. I don't mind vertical windows. On many designs I think they work very well and in many cases look better than if the windows had been raked back. It's just the forward raked wannabe windows that I think look bad on virtually every boat that has them. Functional, maybe if it's a boat that warrants that type of window. But on a recreational boat to me they just look dumb while at the same time destroying what good aesthetic lines the boat would otherwise have.



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Old 09-21-2012, 09:25 PM   #28
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Yes. Captain Joe was referring to the overhang above the pilothouse windows, not below the windows. Flying bridges are above the pilothouse.
As noted, I hadn't thought of the impact on deck waves of the overhang below the pilot house, and perhaps that is not what Joe was referring to, but the lower overhang is a feature of North Sea boats, and is presumably there for a reason. Waves would expend a great deal of their force hitting that overhang before coming in contact with the pilot house glass, while the eyebrow would tend to increase the pressure. It seems that the lower overhang is superior to a Portuguese bridge, which would seem to funnel the wave onto the glass. Below are some pictures showing this feature in North Sea boats. The first two are Malahides. Incidentally, the fourth picture of Neptunus Rex is the before picture for a truly spectacular restoration that transformed this Romsdal to the third picture of the Discovery.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:36 PM   #29
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Art, the last I saw, 99 percent of our boats have square transoms, but that doesn't necessarily make them unseaworthy (although almost all of ours, including mine, are no more than coastal/gunk-holing cruisers.) Gee, the Keliautojas transom is at least twice as high as mine.



Ray, it often seems the Coot is physically drawn toward the Keliautojas when exiting the marina, but thankfully I'm not responsible for paying for its haulouts or maintenance of its many wonderful systems.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
As noted, I hadn't thought of the impact on deck waves of the overhang below the pilot house, and perhaps that is not what Joe was referring to, but the lower overhang is a feature of North Sea boats, and is presumably there for a reason. Waves would expend a great deal of their force hitting that overhang before coming in contact with the pilot house glass, while the eyebrow would tend to increase the pressure.
Looks like a good idea. I suppose it all depends on the individual boat's geometry and the wisdom/judgment of the designer/builder.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:28 PM   #31
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... I'd like to see her bottom before pronouncing her seaworthy.
Well?
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:41 PM   #32
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I agree that the boat in your shot would look nice with vertical windows, too. I don't mind vertical windows. On many designs I think they work very well and in many cases look better than if the windows had been raked back. It's just the forward raked wannabe windows that I think look bad on virtually every boat that has them. Functional, maybe if it's a boat that warrants that type of window. But on a recreational boat to me they just look dumb while at the same time destroying what good aesthetic lines the boat would otherwise have.
So, looks over function?
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:43 PM   #33
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Well?
which boat are you referring?
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:45 PM   #34
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As does Griffin (as shown).
Griffin and Northern Spy were on the same dock down in Tsehum Harbour when I first purchased her. I wasted a lot of time admiring Griffin. Sometimes Bill Garden achieved absolute perfection.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:46 PM   #35
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So, where did you get that photo? Are you a spy? No ! A poor one at that. That's not the boat!
Check again. That is Pacific Song in the slings at Port Townsend.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:54 PM   #36
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Sir Spy, I was confused as to which boat you were referring.
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #37
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I just can't look at a boat like this without thinking about where it could take me.
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:09 AM   #38
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Griffin and Northern Spy were on the same dock down in Tsehum Harbour when I first purchased her. I wasted a lot of time admiring Griffin. Sometimes Bill Garden achieved absolute perfection.
See photo in Northern Spy's post # 34: Now, that trawler has the perfect transom for handling following seas!
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:19 AM   #39
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I'll have to admit to admiring fine ##s.
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:59 AM   #40
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So, looks over function?
Yeah, like you're going to take a monster ocean comber into your windows in that pond you drive around in down there. We're certainly not going to take any in the trenches we drive around in up here.

Most recreational boats never see conditions where wannabe windows are actually going to play a role in the survivability of the boat. They might reduce glare in some cases (we don't have a glare problem in our boat due to the flying bridge overhang), they might keep the rain off (again, not a problem on our boat plus we have real good wipers), and they might provide some extra room to hang instruments if you like instruments hung up overhead (again, a non-issue in our boat).

I'm all for function over looks where function is the more important of the two. But other than people who are going to take on major ocean crossings and such, wannabe windows don't have any function other than looking like they do. Sort of like the H2 Hummer. Big tough wannabe body bolted onto a wussy Chevy Tahoe.

So when it comes to coastal recreational boats, absolutely it's looks over function for me as far as the wannabe windows are concerned. I have no reason to drive an ugly boat because I'm never going to encounter the conditions that justify the boat being ugly.
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