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10-02-2018, 10:53 AM
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#1
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TF Site Team/Forum Founder
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
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Interesting tidbit
A friend of mine traveled down to Port Aransas from Houston area with us in their boat. On board were his in laws just to take a ride down the ditch. He burned around 450 gallons to get down here(I burn about half that) in a Sea Ray 47 Sedan. Said friend has a friend that owns/operates an air charter service. He offered to fly said in laws back to Houston in one of his jets. The round trip from Corpus to Houston burned LESS fuel...ROUND TRIP...in a jet...than the boat did one way!!!! I guess this is a good example of the differences in density of air and water.
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10-02-2018, 04:52 PM
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#2
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Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker
A friend of mine traveled down to Port Aransas from Houston area with us in their boat. On board were his in laws just to take a ride down the ditch. He burned around 450 gallons to get down here(I burn about half that) in a Sea Ray 47 Sedan. Said friend has a friend that owns/operates an air charter service. He offered to fly said in laws back to Houston in one of his jets. The round trip from Corpus to Houston burned LESS fuel...ROUND TRIP...in a jet...than the boat did one way!!!! I guess this is a good example of the differences in density of air and water.
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And the weight of the vehicle.
David
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10-02-2018, 07:00 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,148
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Yeah, but compare:the fuel costs to a helicopter....you know, something fun like a boat....
Like the old cereal commercial used to say.... Jets are for kids....
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10-02-2018, 07:06 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,308
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The absolute cheapest thing in aviation is fuel. I bet the TBO cost on the jet engine was more than the cost of all the fuel spent that weekend.
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10-02-2018, 07:22 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
City: NW Washington State
Vessel Name: Kingfisher
Vessel Model: 37' converted gillnetter/crabber
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1
The absolute cheapest thing in aviation is fuel. I bet the TBO cost on the jet engine was more than the cost of all the fuel spent that weekend.
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The TBO cost of a single turbine engine is several times the value of my entire boat!
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Anson & Donna
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama
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10-03-2018, 03:14 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: st pete
Vessel Model: 430 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1
The absolute cheapest thing in aviation is fuel. I bet the TBO cost on the jet engine was more than the cost of all the fuel spent that weekend.
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I've heard that many times over and it ain't even close to being correct. Fuel cost is HUGE.
Even in the most efficient jet, with a super fuel card contract you see north of $2 million in fuel between engine overhauls which could be $300 to $500 K each. Even in the turboprop world fuel is still the biggest cost.
In the piston world (where I hang around) fuel is even more expensive, to the tune of double or triple engine costs. I've had many years where the fuel costs are more that all the other costs combined.
However, the above assume that the plane will fly a reasonable amount and not sit.
And boats, too. Fuel is a big cost if the boat is used much. If it's a marina queen, the marina costs are the most.
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Seevee
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10-03-2018, 04:42 AM
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#7
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Guru
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,610
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what is "TBO" ?
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10-03-2018, 05:16 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: SOBX North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2
what is "TBO" ?
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I think they are talking about Time between overhaul.
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10-03-2018, 09:11 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,308
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I am no longer in aviation, but when I was, labor was 25% of my costs, followed by parts, followed by fuel, followed by insurance. Every thing else was insignificant.
While Seevee is probably correct in his statement. If you have to worry about fuel costs you probably shouldn’t be in aviation.
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10-03-2018, 09:27 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,308
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TBO is time between overhaul. Many parts on an aircraft have a fixed number of hours before a mandatory overhaul. If you know the overhaul cost then you know how much money each flight hour costs. Some parts are on condition of meeting a specification, surprisingly these parts are pretty predictable as to when they won’t meet condition, operating environment can have a huge affect on how long they last.
Helicopters are extra special with all the gearboxes, servos and even rotor blades having life limits between 1500 hrs and 2500 hrs for most components. Back in the 90’s it would cost us $250,000 to overhaul a turbomecca engine that would have a TBO of 2500 hours, then you still had the transmission, drive shafts, gearboxes, rotor blades and so on. I believe our TBO cost was close to $500 an hour for a 7pax+pilot Astar.
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10-03-2018, 10:33 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,610
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Thanks
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10-03-2018, 10:40 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Houma, Louisiana
Vessel Name: M/V LUNASEA
Vessel Model: 45ft Bluewater Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 529
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Last year after everything added in, $5000 per hour to fly a Citation 2, the more you use it the cheaper it is.
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10-03-2018, 11:14 AM
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#13
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TF Site Team
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
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I was asked about fuel efficiency by a fellow pilot just before I retired 6 years ago so I did a calculation using the Learjet 60 and my 34 Californian LRC numbers. Both came out to about 2.2 NM/USG...but the boat is a whole lot more fun when the engines are shut down.
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10-03-2018, 11:20 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright
I was asked about fuel efficiency by a fellow pilot just before I retired 6 years ago so I did a calculation using the Learjet 60 and my 34 Californian LRC numbers. Both came out to about 2.2 NM/USG...but the boat is a whole lot more fun when the engines are shut down.
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I bet. I don't remember the glide ratio on the LJ60 but it can't be as good as the Californy.
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10-03-2018, 12:09 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben2go
I bet. I don't remember the glide ratio on the LJ60 but it can't be as good as the Californy.
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Speed and altitude at engine failure means a lot...
Remember the time a U2 had a flameout near Cuba and dead sticked it back to Panama City, FL in a nice, calm manner....
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10-03-2018, 07:13 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Speed and altitude at engine failure means a lot...
Remember the time a U2 had a flameout near Cuba and dead sticked it back to Panama City, FL in a nice, calm manner....
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I remember reading about it. Something like 65,000 feet or higher.
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This is my signature line. There are many like it but this one is mine.
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10-03-2018, 07:39 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,148
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Friends of mine were on duty at USCG AIRSTA Miami listening to the radio traffic between the U2 and air traffic control...they related the story to me the next day...pretty impressive.
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10-03-2018, 07:47 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Friends of mine were on duty at USCG AIRSTA Miami listening to the radio traffic between the U2 and air traffic control...they related the story to me the next day...pretty impressive.
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Without the internet or the gossip girls, that was pretty impressive.
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10-03-2018, 07:47 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
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Off topic but as the flying guys are here. This morning United flight from LA into Sydney, low on fuel, called Mayday. Airport went into emergency, the roads outside the airport were closed, etc. But it landed ok.
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BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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10-03-2018, 08:05 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,884
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That's good to hear. Glad to hear the airport was on alert and took safety into account.
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What a pain in the transom.
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