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Old 10-02-2018, 11:53 AM   #1
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Interesting tidbit

A friend of mine traveled down to Port Aransas from Houston area with us in their boat. On board were his in laws just to take a ride down the ditch. He burned around 450 gallons to get down here(I burn about half that) in a Sea Ray 47 Sedan. Said friend has a friend that owns/operates an air charter service. He offered to fly said in laws back to Houston in one of his jets. The round trip from Corpus to Houston burned LESS fuel...ROUND TRIP...in a jet...than the boat did one way!!!! I guess this is a good example of the differences in density of air and water.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:52 PM   #2
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A friend of mine traveled down to Port Aransas from Houston area with us in their boat. On board were his in laws just to take a ride down the ditch. He burned around 450 gallons to get down here(I burn about half that) in a Sea Ray 47 Sedan. Said friend has a friend that owns/operates an air charter service. He offered to fly said in laws back to Houston in one of his jets. The round trip from Corpus to Houston burned LESS fuel...ROUND TRIP...in a jet...than the boat did one way!!!! I guess this is a good example of the differences in density of air and water.

And the weight of the vehicle.


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Old 10-02-2018, 08:00 PM   #3
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Yeah, but compare:the fuel costs to a helicopter....you know, something fun like a boat....

Like the old cereal commercial used to say.... Jets are for kids....
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:06 PM   #4
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The absolute cheapest thing in aviation is fuel. I bet the TBO cost on the jet engine was more than the cost of all the fuel spent that weekend.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:22 PM   #5
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The absolute cheapest thing in aviation is fuel. I bet the TBO cost on the jet engine was more than the cost of all the fuel spent that weekend.
The TBO cost of a single turbine engine is several times the value of my entire boat!
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:14 AM   #6
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The absolute cheapest thing in aviation is fuel. I bet the TBO cost on the jet engine was more than the cost of all the fuel spent that weekend.
I've heard that many times over and it ain't even close to being correct. Fuel cost is HUGE.

Even in the most efficient jet, with a super fuel card contract you see north of $2 million in fuel between engine overhauls which could be $300 to $500 K each. Even in the turboprop world fuel is still the biggest cost.

In the piston world (where I hang around) fuel is even more expensive, to the tune of double or triple engine costs. I've had many years where the fuel costs are more that all the other costs combined.

However, the above assume that the plane will fly a reasonable amount and not sit.

And boats, too. Fuel is a big cost if the boat is used much. If it's a marina queen, the marina costs are the most.
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:42 AM   #7
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what is "TBO" ?
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:16 AM   #8
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what is "TBO" ?
I think they are talking about Time between overhaul.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:11 AM   #9
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I am no longer in aviation, but when I was, labor was 25% of my costs, followed by parts, followed by fuel, followed by insurance. Every thing else was insignificant.

While Seevee is probably correct in his statement. If you have to worry about fuel costs you probably shouldn’t be in aviation.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:27 AM   #10
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TBO is time between overhaul. Many parts on an aircraft have a fixed number of hours before a mandatory overhaul. If you know the overhaul cost then you know how much money each flight hour costs. Some parts are on condition of meeting a specification, surprisingly these parts are pretty predictable as to when they wont meet condition, operating environment can have a huge affect on how long they last.

Helicopters are extra special with all the gearboxes, servos and even rotor blades having life limits between 1500 hrs and 2500 hrs for most components. Back in the 90s it would cost us $250,000 to overhaul a turbomecca engine that would have a TBO of 2500 hours, then you still had the transmission, drive shafts, gearboxes, rotor blades and so on. I believe our TBO cost was close to $500 an hour for a 7pax+pilot Astar.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:33 AM   #11
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:40 AM   #12
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Last year after everything added in, $5000 per hour to fly a Citation 2, the more you use it the cheaper it is.
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:14 PM   #13
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I was asked about fuel efficiency by a fellow pilot just before I retired 6 years ago so I did a calculation using the Learjet 60 and my 34 Californian LRC numbers. Both came out to about 2.2 NM/USG...but the boat is a whole lot more fun when the engines are shut down.
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:20 PM   #14
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I was asked about fuel efficiency by a fellow pilot just before I retired 6 years ago so I did a calculation using the Learjet 60 and my 34 Californian LRC numbers. Both came out to about 2.2 NM/USG...but the boat is a whole lot more fun when the engines are shut down.

I bet. I don't remember the glide ratio on the LJ60 but it can't be as good as the Californy.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:09 PM   #15
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I bet. I don't remember the glide ratio on the LJ60 but it can't be as good as the Californy.
Speed and altitude at engine failure means a lot...

Remember the time a U2 had a flameout near Cuba and dead sticked it back to Panama City, FL in a nice, calm manner....
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:13 PM   #16
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Speed and altitude at engine failure means a lot...

Remember the time a U2 had a flameout near Cuba and dead sticked it back to Panama City, FL in a nice, calm manner....
I remember reading about it. Something like 65,000 feet or higher.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:39 PM   #17
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Friends of mine were on duty at USCG AIRSTA Miami listening to the radio traffic between the U2 and air traffic control...they related the story to me the next day...pretty impressive.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:47 PM   #18
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Friends of mine were on duty at USCG AIRSTA Miami listening to the radio traffic between the U2 and air traffic control...they related the story to me the next day...pretty impressive.



Without the internet or the gossip girls, that was pretty impressive.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:47 PM   #19
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Off topic but as the flying guys are here. This morning United flight from LA into Sydney, low on fuel, called Mayday. Airport went into emergency, the roads outside the airport were closed, etc. But it landed ok.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:05 PM   #20
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That's good to hear. Glad to hear the airport was on alert and took safety into account.
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