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Old 05-14-2014, 10:18 PM   #21
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Art:
We are probably looking in the 36-42' range. Hopefully, smaller engines. Single screw would be ideal. Considering GB, Monk, Krogen, and a few others. Not looking for a project boat. I love messing around on boats but at 71 I would rather use them than rebuild them.
FYI, I may live on the Great Lakes but I'm pretty familiar with your cruising area. Born in San Francisco. Father was a master for Matson and finally retired as a San Francisco Bar Pilot. Grandfather was also a ship captain. Last ship he had was a combination of sail and steam.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:10 PM   #22
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Art:
We are probably looking in the 36-42' range. Hopefully, smaller engines. Single screw would be ideal. Considering GB, Monk, Krogen, and a few others. Not looking for a project boat. I love messing around on boats but at 71 I would rather use them than rebuild them.
FYI, I may live on the Great Lakes but I'm pretty familiar with your cruising area. Born in San Francisco. Father was a master for Matson and finally retired as a San Francisco Bar Pilot. Grandfather was also a ship captain. Last ship he had was a combination of sail and steam.
Very Cool! - I'm impressed! Me, LI NY and Maine till my mid 20's. SF Bay Area Aug 18, 1984, came down from 6,000' elevation, Sierra Nevada Mts. Age 62... So Far Still Rocken!

Cheers! - Art
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:25 PM   #23
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So, if a GB 42 sold new for $135K, why are the prices about the same, or in some instances, more today? Thirty five year old boat, possible thousands of hours on engines, maybe outdated electronics, outdated interior designs. Probably canvas that needs to be replaced. Things that make you go hummmm. I really must be missing something. I've never owned a boat I thought I could profit from.
From an online inflation calculator:

What cost $135000 in 1979 would cost $426637.96 in 2013
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:11 AM   #24
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From an online inflation calculator:

What cost $135000 in 1979 would cost $426637.96 in 2013
That is a good analogy, except I can't fathom a boat being an appreciating asset. We aren't talking new here or a commodity. Hell, I can remember gas wars in San Francisco when I was a kid and you could get gas for 15.9/gal.
Are boats getting to be "collector" items? When we buy another boat, and it's "used", I hope to pay less than it cost new 20 or 30 years ago and will still be servicable for a few more years without having to rebuild completely.
Oh, converting the $135K in 1979 = $464,721.05 in 2014. It's getting worse.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:56 AM   #25
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I agree. It seems like a supply and demand function, since your alternative is to spend an entire fortune on a new vessel. Sometimes I'm surprised that so many new boats are sold at all.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:56 AM   #26
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Bp - "Oh, converting the $135K in 1979 = $464,721.05 in 2014. It's getting worse."

Worse than what...? - Worse than previous inflationary times? Inflation this time is in a vicious worldwide cycle. And, it's often cloaked by many "reasons" from manufacturers of all sorts of items, commodities’ pricing included.

Regarding buying a used boat - It's buyers’ market for older trawlers. Asking Price is just that, "Asking". Purchaser has complete opportunity to "Offer" any price they feel is correct regarding the boat and what the purchaser has capability of paying. If the offered price is turned down then a re-offer can be debated with seller. Or... purchaser can walk away and seek another boat to make an offer on.

Seek and Ye Shall Find... err Float!!

Happy Boat Sales/Search/Buying Daze! - Art
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:09 AM   #27
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Of course we are aware of the negotiating system. I've negotiated millions of dollars worth of contracts during my working lifetime. I think that we might be in a somewhat better bargaining position in that we will be a "cash" buyer. No need for financing approval and all that goes with it. Just looking at Yachtworld you can tell that some of these boats have been on the market for a considerable time. Some of the sellers have been kind enough to put a time stamp on the pictures. I've talked with some brokers who are reluctant to tell you "exactly" how long a particular boat has been listed. I even had a broker tell me that he wouldn't even present an offer to a seller unless he thought it was, in his mind, "reasonable." Needless to say, I won't be buying through him. My position will be, how many cash offers has the seller had this week? Or in the last year for that matter? Just like a house, a boat is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay, not a penny more. It's like selling a house with a pool. You automatically limit your potential buyers. We would have loved to recover 100% of what we invested over the years in our 1999 Catalina 36. Obviously, that would be unrealistic. We got a fair price, all things considered. Time will tell how serious some of these sellers are.
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:54 AM   #28
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Art:
Of course we are aware of the negotiating system. I've negotiated millions of dollars worth of contracts during my working lifetime. I think that we might be in a somewhat better bargaining position in that we will be a "cash" buyer. No need for financing approval and all that goes with it.
Bp - I have no doubt, from what you say, that on BIG Ticket items in a different area than "Pleasure Boats" you are well-versed/experienced. That said - Boat you just sold was purchased new by you in 1999, if memory serves me correctly from previous post of yours. With NEW Boats the potential for paid-price "dickering" with broker is as night and day compared to USED Boats. And, with New Boat - similar to New Car - as you leave the dealer to sail off (drive off) into the sunset an immediate, substantial devaluation occurs. Not so with Used Boats... if purchased correctly!

Used Boat purchases are a kin to “Horse Trading”. There is often much room to dicker! YachtWorld prices on used or new boats are usually hugely inflated by dealers/brokers. They gots ta make a living too, no blame coming from me! However – never be afraid to offer any broker a price you feel any boat may be worth, of course, with contingencies for surveys etc. The broker has basic obligation to present your true-offer to seller. Dickering starts at that point if seller decides to entertain your offer. Surveys are SOOOO important to not only clearly show you the Used Boat’s true value but also to give you leverage during price dickering with seller. If all else fails, due to contingencies, either you or the seller can walk away free and clear. If end result of your and seller’s “horse trade” dickering events reach a meeting of the minds – then you can own that boat.

Cash, IMHO, as you plan to do is the best way by far for boat purchase. I have had very good results buying a boat directly from the owner. But, I like to dicker and put NO emotion into any purchase. That is till I own it – then I like to make love to my properties and keep them well in condition.

Not trying to teach you anything here – just sayen – Used Boat buying is similar to Horse Trading – Dicker, Baby – DICKER! Make sure you come out respectfully on top of the deal – or – Walk Away. Never let the seller get on top of you!

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Old 05-16-2014, 05:46 AM   #29
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re boats getting to be "collector" items?

YES , but they are rare and exceptional.

A Bertram Moppie comes to mind , but to have a value most are repowered with high HP car diesels (Yannmar) at great expense.

Trumphy House Boats , are probably the most expensive in the woodies boat market ,the Huckins Fairform Flyer would be a close second .

For the fast boat folks (30K 50K) there have been so many improvements over the decades that older models are of little interest
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:56 AM   #30
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That is a good analogy, except I can't fathom a boat being an appreciating asset. We aren't talking new here or a commodity. Hell, I can remember gas wars in San Francisco when I was a kid and you could get gas for 15.9/gal.
Are boats getting to be "collector" items? When we buy another boat, and it's "used", I hope to pay less than it cost new 20 or 30 years ago and will still be servicable for a few more years without having to rebuild completely.
Oh, converting the $135K in 1979 = $464,721.05 in 2014. It's getting worse.
Just for fun, the other way of looking at it is that 135K in 2014 is only $41,341 in 1979 dollars. So it's not really appreciating. I wonder what a comparable used boat would have cost then?
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:34 AM   #31
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Just for fun, the other way of looking at it is that 135K in 2014 is only $41,341 in 1979 dollars. So it's not really appreciating. I wonder what a comparable used boat would have cost then?
I remember it well - Back when, in New England, used boat cost was often jokingly stated as: "That boat will cost ya - A Dollar Three Eighty Plus Tax"!
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